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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to think that if one of your guests is pregnant, and a big feature of dinner is a huge, delicious-looking cheese plate...

259 replies

LoveInAColdClimate · 10/09/2011 10:12

...at least one of those cheeses should be pasteurised? Had dinner with PIL (who are lovely and who I get on with really well, so this is not a general sniping thread) last night, which featured, as pudding, a big "proper cheese shop" cheese board, but no cheese I could eat. They know what I can have and what I can't, so this can't have been a mistake. I have been v spoilt at other friends' and family who have sought out yummy cheese I'm able to eat, so I know I'm v lucky. But when pregnant or no-cows'-milk friends come to ours for supper, I love sourcing cheese they can eat if I'm doing cheese as part of the meal. It just seemed a bit weird to make half the meal something I couldn't have. Am I being precious or is this odd, especially as the cheese had been specially bought and so one type I could eat could have been chucked in? Frankly a bit of cheddar would have been fine, I just felt really left out.

OP posts:
SouthernFriedTofu · 10/09/2011 22:32

They know what I can have and what I can't, so this can't have been a mistake.

They really don't. Or they think you are being precious about it. Your mil would have been able to eat whatever cheese she liked. BTW yabu

kirsty75005 · 10/09/2011 22:34

@warthog. Are you saying that in pregnancy you will avoid any foodstuff that has ever caused something bad to happen to someone, even once ?

Can you give me at least one food that passes that test ?

Because if your conclusion is that you're not going to eat for 9 months in order to avoid a dead baby, it won't work.

Oh, and can you give me at least one case of a Listeria outbreak that was caused by pasteurised cheese where it is known that both the correct pasteurisation procedure and normal food hygiene procedures were followed ? It wouldn't be the first time that guidelines were issued on the basis of a theoretical risk for which there was no real-world evidence.

LilRedWG · 10/09/2011 22:35

You're being precious I'm afraid.

LilRedWG · 10/09/2011 22:40

I ask what people can/can't eat but am not be offended if someone serves something I can't eat (I am on a dairy-free diet) - meals cannot revolve around one person.

PicaK · 10/09/2011 22:41

Let the cheese thing go.

Just make damn sure they know about grapes, cherry tomatoes and sausages when your little one starts eating.....

PicaK · 10/09/2011 22:42

And honey.

moominmarvellous · 10/09/2011 22:46

Had to log in just to LOL at 'stealth cheese attack'!! :o

Oh, and it's a YABU from me too I'm afraid. Perhaps you should carry a small net of safe cheese in case of any other upsetting cheese based scenarios :)

bonkers20 · 10/09/2011 22:47

A friend of mine got listeriosis when pregnant. She lost the baby. It might be a tiny risk, but if it's one you can avoid (unlike the many we can't, like getting in the car to go to work) then it's probably best to avoid it.

OP, you are being precious I'm afraid. It was just the desert.

spudulika · 10/09/2011 22:47

Offs

YABU

You can eat any and all cheeses.

You're just choosing not to.

kirsty75005 · 10/09/2011 22:55

@bonkers20 Avoiding the risk of listeriosis isn't possible either : the bacteria is endemic and any food can contain it.
You can reduce your driving as much as posible, but I've never heard of pregnant women being advised to do this, despite many more unborn babies dying in car accidents than from listeriosis

working9while5 · 10/09/2011 23:03

20 cases a year makes it a very small risk indeed. However, if you are one of those 20 women, the idea of "proportionate" risk is nonsense.

Risk analysis is just that, analysis of risk. There is a very tiny but potentially catastrophic outcome posed by eating foods that are mould-ripened in pregnancy, which can be avoided at no risk to anyone. Avoiding the vast range of foods which might carry listeriosis is less likely to be recommended by health professionals because it imposes a dietary restraint that would be harder to adhere to and might carry its own risk in reducing the overall variety of food available to women at a time when nutrition is important.

I have no issue with anyone choosing to eat mould-ripened cheeses in pregnancy if they feel that, having weighed up the risk that their pregnancy could end if they were one of the unlucky few to contract listeriosis, it is not likely enough to outweigh the benefit from eating the cheese. We all take risks, even avoidable ones, because we believe that the risk to us personally is minimal.

warthog · 10/09/2011 23:03

no kirsty75005.

i'm saying that i'll follow nhs guidelines because i believe that immunologists, obstetricians, paediatricians and whoever the hell else knows about this stuff have given their professional opinion and come up with what they think is reasonable.

i also understand that tomorrow some scientist may find that the key to immortality is a diet purely of kiwi fruit and lobster. and i'll have to think about that one Hmm

i'm not going to trawl the web looking for research papers to supplicate your challenge of finding specific listeria cases. i've got better things to do. like post on mnet. Grin and that's why i'll trust what experts who have presumably studied this area (otherwise why would they be drawing up NHS guidelines) have to say on the matter.

rubyrubyruby · 10/09/2011 23:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bonkers20 · 10/09/2011 23:12

kirsty75005 OK, I should have said that you can quite easily "reduce" your risk by avoiding certain foods.

A1980 · 10/09/2011 23:13

Don't have time to read all of this but they probably didn't know which cheeses you can eat. I certainly don't.

Also in the kitchen at work a few weeks ago a pregnant colleague was moaning that she had to cut her coffee intake as there is a caffeine limit in pregnancy.

I didn't know that either.

Original poster
LoveInAColdClimate · 10/09/2011 23:15

^Good lord, I hadn't realised how many of you are terrible hosts. So none of you ask your guests if there's anything they can't eat or simply detest before you cook for them? And if it turns out you select something on their "off" list, you deride them for being precious?

From now on I expect some sort of AA rosette for my dinner parties. Jeez.^

Sproggers, I feel just the same! All those years of researching and cooking meals to accommodate guests' needs was apparently totally unnecessary and I should have just plonked down a plate of whatever I fancied and decreed them precious when they couldn't eat it.

I have to say, other than last night, I have never been to a dinner party where guests' dietary requirements (down to a tricky combination of what seem to bs allergies to all known foods) haven't been accomodated, so either I have unusually hospitable and polite friends and family or there are some awful hosts on here!

OP posts:
omnishambles · 10/09/2011 23:16

I ask if they are veggie and thats it - if they have an allergy then I expect them to pipe up at that point, otherwise yes, they will get what they're given.

Original poster
LoveInAColdClimate · 10/09/2011 23:20

As said repeatedly, they did know I couldn't have it as they call prior to each visit to check what I can't have. I have no explanation for it, was odd and out of character as they are usually very concerned hosts! I don't think it can have been some kind of subtle punishment for perceived pregnancy preciousness as I really haven't fussed about anything (other than here!).

OP posts:
rubyrubyruby · 10/09/2011 23:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
LoveInAColdClimate · 10/09/2011 23:24

Gosh, maybe I'm too soft! Will happily do veggie/vegan/dukan/allergies/dislikes/kosher-as-long-as-not-too-strict-as-don't-have-separate-knives-or-boards/intolerance/pregnant etc! Am I a soft touch as a hostess?

OP posts:
Original poster
LoveInAColdClimate · 10/09/2011 23:27

I know, Ruby - is v sweet! My parents just wrote it down but DH's seem concerned it might change (which to be fair, I suppose it does from time to time, like the advice on peanuts, but hasn't while I've been pregnant).

OP posts:
DandyLioness · 10/09/2011 23:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PinkFondantFancy · 10/09/2011 23:54

I'm with sprogger. I always ask people what they can't eat/don't like before they come for dinner and accommodate it. I cant think of anything more embarrassing than dishing food up only to not be eaten.

OP YANBU-they asked you what you can't/dont want to eat, you told them, they ignored you. I would be peeved too.

ChippingIn · 11/09/2011 00:16

So if you heat the cheese thoroughly (grill till it's bubbling) if it cools down does it become unsafe again? It must do mustn't it.

Chocolateisafoodgroup - (Brilliant name by the way!) on eBay & Amazon there are a couple of different authors with books called 'A culture of Fear' and one of them has different versions - which one do you have/recommend? (thanks!)

kirsty75005 · 11/09/2011 06:13

@bonkers20. Yes, you can reduce your risks, and for example I think that avoiding soft unpasteurised cheese is sensible. On the other hand, I think that avoiding certain pasteurised cheeses is very excessive : given that the UK advice seems to be internationally isolated, I'm not sure the risk is actually significantly higher than many other foodstuffs which you're not advised to avoid. Are you avoiding cabbage ? Lettuce ? Strawberries ? All responsible for major outbreaks...

@warthog. Of course, you can avoid pasteurised cheese if you want to ! Everyone chooses their own comfort level. But when I ate pasteurised cheese in pregnancy, I was following the advice of the immunologists, obstetricians and paediatricians who prepared the French and US guidelines, who I have no reason to believe less informed or risk-averse than their UK counterparts. And this conversation was started by a few comments which seemed to imply that the decision to eat pasteurised cheese in pregnancy was ill-informed or irresponsible. If that's not your point of view, and your point of view is in fact "I can follow UK guidelines, Kirsty can follow French guidelines, that's a reasonable decision for everyone", then my apologies, I misunderstood one or two of your earlier posts.