..to want to say to those who are whinging about the 50% tax rate

[vic77en]

..that they should fuck the fuck off?

At a time when lots of people are really struggling with high inflation, 20% VAT, high unemployment, lack of living wage etc etc.

If you're earning above the 50% threshold you are well off and can afford it.

I used to earn enough to pay 40% tax (this was before the 50% rate came in and I was nowhere near the 50% threshold) and did not begrudge paying this. If NI and VAT were factored in, over 50% of my income went in taxes. I still had high disposable income.

Rather than giving their views airtime, there should be a massive PR exercise on the benefits to all of us of living in a civil society where there is an economic safety net, NHS, free education (for under 18's at least still...)

AIBU or not?

Sorry - that last bit was dreadfully arrogant - I didn't mean it to come out like that.

I didn't say noone, there certainly isn't a huge exodus is there. And noone can be sure it's only for 50%....given that we're in a recession, property rental is high etc.

Working hours simply isn't true because I know far too many people that either work just as hard and long for less, and much shorter for more.

Fabbychic, not that you listen to anything anyone else says over the noise of your own arse talking, but people who work in supermarkets etc get told how long they can have their hair. So it's not like your whiny little son is some kind of special martyr to have the same working conditions but a lot more money for it.

There's a huge exodus round here!

Why does he do it Fabby? I assume he'll retire early after making his riches?!

Dh started work on a trading floor aged 18. He worked for a "dream team" he was on the 4.45 train every morning for years. He's worked for himself since he left the bank. He's now 42 and one of the most driven people ive ever come across. Not everyone burns out. As for the shoe thing, it's normal - he's worse than Imelda.

You don't always have to even move abroad to aviod the 50% tax rate in a completely legal fashion. When it was introduced DH and his colleagues considered leaving the country (Switzerland or Singapore were the options). Instead the company he worked for has spun his team out as an LLP. This has reduced the effective tax rate to the corporation tax rate (around 25%) on any money brought onshore.

However, most of DH and his colleagues don't need a salary to support themselves since they have savings or onshore investments to support. They tend to only take a small notional salary (less than £20k I think) and the rest they roll up gross offshore.

Prior to this they were paying 40% ... so the 50% tax rate has caused them to pay far less tax!

That's a truly heartwarming story fluffy, good to see people doing their best to avoid tax.....can't let those "disableds" have a helping hand can we?

Lots of people earning over £150k work hard. Lots of people earning under £150k work hard. Some people inherit wealth and never get off their arses. It's not enough just to work hard, you also have to be fortunate. I think those who see it that way probably feel less entitled to every last penny.

I don't think we should be sad to see the back of any private equity bloodsuckers, as I understand it they raise money for their shareholders at the cost of jobs and sustainable business and move on.

CinnabarRed.... congratulations!

Posie you are seriously hilarious. Sadly, I am not sure you get the irony of stating your "facts" to people who actually know what they're talking about from a professional perspective vs what you have read.

On the crass/vile accusation, yup I am happy to be called that for deciding that dh and I make enough so at this point I would rather keep the work life balance I have given I have got a young family than chase the extra cash which as a headline sounds lucrative but in net terms isn't worth the disruption to my family. I believe men and women up and down the country make v similar decisions every day. (Eg deciding to sah vs woh once tax and childcare costs have been taken into account) except my decision involves larger sums of money.

Good grief Fluffy. It must be to do with the culture of that kind of workplace that that is seen as ok. Sounds immoral to me.

fluffyhands "so the 50% tax rate has caused them to pay far less tax!"

No, their desire to avoid paying the 50% tax rate has caused them to find a legal loophole that allows them to avoid it and they now pay a lower marginal rate that most people who earn less than £40k.

CinnabarRed I bow to your superior knowledge. Although am a little heartened by the fact you had a heated discussion with someone else who (presumably) knows far more about this than I do, so maybe it wasn't entirely clear cut and I'm not entirely stupid

Cinnabar you utter loon :o Congratulations but please, try and stop thinking about tax for a few days at the very least!

PS Cinnbar congratulations

Fabbychic - I feel your pain (only slightly). The difference between your son and the rest of the population though is that by the time he is burnt out he will probably have enough money to support a wife and family for life.

Personally - I think 50% tax rate is too high. When it is that high people look for ways to avoid paying it.

Of course you're not stupid OP! Tax in general is really hard to judge, which is why people like Gordon Brown so seriously misjudged the political fall out from the 10% tax rate a few years back. (And that, BTW, is the reason why we'll never get a flat rate of tax - inevitably there would be winners and losers, depending on personal income and circumstances, and it would be too expensive to compensate the losers.)

I'm signing off now...

I think DH has just had enough. He paid his 40% tax every year without any issues and was very patriotic. He loved the UK.

But after 2008, with people hating bankers, he just doesn't care anymore. The average person on the street doesn't even understand what really happened.

He isn't even a banker for god's sake. He never lost money (in fact he predicted the credit crunch and had his best years ever in 2007-09). He never needed a "bailout". He risks his own money everyday aswell as that of his investors.

So he has decided to play the same game as many others play since he'll be hated either way by ignorant politicians and the public.

i'd say the only people who think it's perfectly ok and that paying half your wages in taxes are those who don't have to pay it. Big wages might sound huge but in reality the take home pay is much less and then these people who pay massive tax have to put up with everyone bitching about them as they do frequently on Mn.

It's lucky he isn't a politician. He'd get the hatred without the sweetener of the massive salary.

If you earned £150k, why would you do overtime full stop!?

In fact, why would you even do full time, when you could still earn £75k working half the hours.

Not only that, but someone else could also earn £75k for working part time hours which would be one less unemployed person.

begonyabampot there has been some high earnings bashing on the thread, but most posters haven't.

Personally I don't care if someone earns £150k or £700k or however many million a year.
My salary tripled in the 10 years I worked in my field (before going p/t) and if it had done so again I would be earning in the 50% bracket in another 10 years.
I do care if they think they should get a tax break at the expense of the 60 million people in the country who earn less than that

fluffyhands - it is not exactly on board to treat what is effectively income as capital gains or corporate earnings brought onshore. Your husband clearly makes a share of fees on the funds he works on - this is his real pay. His own investments in those funds raise trickier questions but are still mainly a form of compensation. There is a lot of pressure in the U.S. to close this loophole for hedge funds and private equity and I'm sure HMRC will take a look eventually. They've certainly gone after offshore trusts set up by banks, etc. on behalf of employees to avoid taxes on bonuses.

Most banks and hedge funds didn't take any public money directly but that doesn't mean they weren't massive beneficiaries of the liquidity pumped into the system. Hmm, wonder why so many hedge funds are doing so poorly now that the tide is going out ...

I hate this country, if I could move to Sweden I would do it tomorrow.

Wibbly you are perfectly entitled to leave this country and move to Sweden. There's absolutely nothing stopping you. Off you go to Sweden. I've been there. It's lovely. Good luck.

Starlight - the nature of such jobs tends to be that you do them full-time or not at all. Unless you are on a series of short-term contracts, in which case you can work for 6 months and then take 6 months off if you so choose, but that is a risky strategy.

Cinnabar - I would say fabulously, rather than dreadfully, arrogant And congratulations!