..to want to say to those who are whinging about the 50% tax rate

[vic77en]

..that they should fuck the fuck off?

At a time when lots of people are really struggling with high inflation, 20% VAT, high unemployment, lack of living wage etc etc.

If you're earning above the 50% threshold you are well off and can afford it.

I used to earn enough to pay 40% tax (this was before the 50% rate came in and I was nowhere near the 50% threshold) and did not begrudge paying this. If NI and VAT were factored in, over 50% of my income went in taxes. I still had high disposable income.

Rather than giving their views airtime, there should be a massive PR exercise on the benefits to all of us of living in a civil society where there is an economic safety net, NHS, free education (for under 18's at least still...)

AIBU or not?

I've been waiting for you CinnabarRed I like your straightforward factual stance rather than our my opinionated ramblings.

The majority of those who do pay 50% tax earn it by putting in 12/14 hour days, leaving home at 6am and not returning until gone 8pm, they have no social lives, no home lives, they deserve every penny they earn, and no they should not have to pay half of what they do earn in taxes, its robbery.

And they work in highly stressful environments.

Fabby, that's simply not true.....and even if it were loads of people do that.

CinnabarRed agree with everything you said. If I recall correctly the Laffer Curve says that 50% is likely to be the trigger point for avoidance behaviour and that's why there was genuine surprise that Labour seemingly without due thought or process went to that rate. I think the govt would probably raise more revenue if the top rate was 45% or even 48%.

it's been said before on this thread but it needs to be said again... NOBODY pays 50% of their income in income tax. NOBODY.

IF you earn over £150k then you still get some personal allowance tax free*
then you pay 20% on everything from the allowance up to £35k
then 40% on everything from £35k to £150k
finally, you only pay 50% of anything over £150k.

So... if you earn £200k then you pay £78k which is only actually 39% of your income.

*£7,475 reduced by £1 for every £2 of income above the £100,000 limit

Watch yourself Novice last time I mentioned the Laffer Curve I got one of my more serious kickings.

Iirc when Mrs Thatcher reduced the top rate of tax from 60% to 40% revenues started pouring into the country.

(Desert Orchid) won the Gold Cup that day too.

Happy Days

CinnabarRed "In defence of VAT: it's not a progressive tax in the UK due to the various exemptions and the zero rate. Higher earners pay way more in UK VAT as a % of their income than lower earners because VAT isn't levied on essentials such as rent and food, and at only a reduced rate on utilities."

Really? I'm sure around the time VAT was increased to 20% there were statistics flying around that this was hurting those on lower incomes more than those on higher. It's not on basic foodstuffs, but it is on eg chocolate biscuits. Those on higher incomes are surely paying out more on other costs that aren't VATable eg mortgages, pension contributions, investment portfolios, hiring staff etc that it would surprise me that they are paying more as a % of their income on VAT than those on a low income.

Flat rate tax has been mentioned on this thread. Does anyone know what % that would have to be to generate the same levels of income tax revenue as the current progressive stepped rates?

It is fairly dependant on the starting rate for paying tax.

Depends how many people you want to take out of taxation.

My friend earns £550k pa. when the 50% rate was introduced he joined a scheme to reduce tax and now pays around £18k pa. the company he worked for, with larger profits than tesco, have now relocated abroad purely for this reason.

Thanks to google, have found that UKIP proposed it in 2006.

They proposed a £9k income tax threshold and a 33% flat rate tax above this, scrapping NI.
They calculated that everybody would save and that this would mean a loss of income tax revenues of £34bn which could be recouped through the incremental economy growth this would generate and through government borrowing and cuts or freezes to public services.

Sounds like a plan
Clearly I'm not a natural UKIP supporter.

Al0uiseG thanks for the warning! I have already been called vile today so I eagerly await the next instalment.

Tax rates have been 50% or higher in several other European countries for some time. The UK has been a tax shelter for too long.

"Bonsoir Thu 08-Sep-11 11:22:52
The trouble is that if you pay 50% tax, you are also, in all likelihood, working extremely long hours at a difficult and stressful job that leaves you little time or energy to enjoy the fruits of your labour, and you will need to outsource (ie pay for) a lot of services to keep your family show on the road."

Yep. That'll be why DH won't be home for half an hour at least.

Sorry novice, crass would have been far more accurate.

fluffles ... "if you earn £200k then you pay £78k which is only actually 39% of your income"

Wrong ... on £200k you net £114k which is £86k in tax or 43%. You would have lost all your personal allowance.

Now if the person on £200k has any sense they put £50k into a pension tax free and pay tax on £150k, which nets them £90k. So using your maximum pensionable allowance you can net £140k on £200k, making your effective tax rate 30%.

My son is 23 in his first job, he works from 6.15am and finishes at 8pm, yes he earns the money but he has no social life at all, none, his clothes cost a fortune because of where he works, he has bought two pairs of shoes recently both pairs cost £295 each.

It's expected that he wears things of value because of what he does and where he works.

Yes he earns far more than the average 23 year old and far more than the average 30 or even 40 year old, but he pays for it with the lack of social life, the stress he suffers. By the time he is 30 he will more than likely have burnout and have to alter his career path.

They even tell him where he works how long he can have his hair.

Sorry to turn up late - I gave birth to DS3 yesterday so am not at my most responsive.

OP - I'm a tax policy adviser to both the UK and overseas governments, and so I'm sure of the VAT stats. I did some of them personally. In fact, I had a heated debate with the head of the IFS on the subject...

Well here is what we are subject to:

Taxable Income (EUR) / Tax Rate %

EUR 0 - 7,900 25%
EUR 7,900 - 11,240 30%
EUR 11,240 - 18,730 40%
EUR 18,730 - 34,330 45%
Above EUR 34,330 50%

Zero-bracket Amount: EUR 6,430 for each taxpayer

Additional tax-free allowance for dependant children:

• 1 child: EUR 1,370
• 2 children: EUR 3,520
• 3 children: EUR 7,880

Municipal taxes must be added to the tax rates above.

Then add about another 1.5% in Social Security.

No council tax though....VAT is 21%.

ThePosieParker Why are you smugly telling FabbyChic that her post about working hours is "simply not true", whilst yourself posting your opinions as if they're fact?

You've confidently said that no one has left the country because of the 50% tax rate. Wrong. I know first hand of at least one multi-national who moved their EMEA head office away from the UK as a result. You seem to have assumed that the people affected are Brits who don't want to leave so would put up with the tax. It's not always the case and when the employees, often from other countries, start complaining and leaving, the shareholders and board take notice.

I also have colleagues who have moved abroad because of it whilst remaining with our company. Some of them spend the majority of every working week abroad, and when in the UK work from home. It makes little difference to them where they live so increasing tax can be the straw that breaks the camel's back quite easily.

YANBU. Unfortunately most people in the UK are either stupid or selfish, grasping cunts who want to sit on wealth rather than use it for useful things that help other people (and equating taxation to theft? really, get a fucking grip!). I hate this country, if I could move to Sweden I would do it tomorrow.

Fabbychic - is that REALLY what you want for your son? £300 shoes and burn out by 30, and NO life. I am not sure from your posts whether you are proud of him, or worried about him....