..to want to say to those who are whinging about the 50% tax rate

[vic77en]

..that they should fuck the fuck off?

At a time when lots of people are really struggling with high inflation, 20% VAT, high unemployment, lack of living wage etc etc.

If you're earning above the 50% threshold you are well off and can afford it.

I used to earn enough to pay 40% tax (this was before the 50% rate came in and I was nowhere near the 50% threshold) and did not begrudge paying this. If NI and VAT were factored in, over 50% of my income went in taxes. I still had high disposable income.

Rather than giving their views airtime, there should be a massive PR exercise on the benefits to all of us of living in a civil society where there is an economic safety net, NHS, free education (for under 18's at least still...)

AIBU or not?

Top 20.....and not strictly the top 20, just some of the top....maybe the other top twenty think it's a crap idea.

Where was that Chunky?

I earn nowhere near the threshold to pay 50% tax, and I am outraged on behalf of people who have to give half of the money that they earn to the government. It's shockingly ridiculous afaic.

50% is too much, and there would be no need for it if this country stopped being so stupidly generous with welfare and overseas aid.

I thought the point was that a lot of high earners will just leave the country if the taxes get any higher. I wouldn't want that to happen. I don't think the choice is as straightforward as 'pay the taxes or spend the money on something else in the UK' - if it was I would probably agree that 50% tax over £150k is ok. I have never earned £150k, but have earned something over £100k and I wasn't massively bothered about my tax bill. It was still a lot of money in my bank account at the end of the day.

But a lot of people know they could earn the same or more in other countries and pay less tax. What if a significant proportion of them leave? Some of those people are doing important jobs - what about highly skilled surgeons? Should we encourage them all to go and earn their fortune in the USA instead?

I don't think 50% tax is the answer, but then I don't know what is. Am bowing out now as don't feel sufficiently informed on this to have any more detailed views.

Posie, all of which are taxable, although given the level of tax, people will be doing their best to avoid.

I don't understand comparing this to people earning 12k - there will always be people who earn more and less than you, why such jealousy for people who have done well (either by hard work, luck, or connections)

As ThePosieParker said, you only pay 50% on the income over £150k, not on the whole £150k.

Singapore. Yes, I had to pay for a doctor's visit, but when that's less than a fiver and I'm seen in 20 minutes, that's not a problem. Health insurance is no more expensive than national insurance, and covers the rest.

Public services and standards of living are all affordable and uniformly excellent.

I don't really know where I got this from, but the income the govt receives in the form of income tax doesn't even cover the bill for benefits, pensions and other. Saying that, it is really the tax we pay as workers doesn't go towards any services other than looking after those who can't/retired/benefits. here

It makes a mockery of the argument that somehow people should pay more income tax so that they can pay for govt services.

itf its over £150K, then YANBU

but these people majorly contirbute to the economy lets not forget that

they buy stuff
they emply people

so anyway a hit on their income basically means they will buy less and hire less!

byt somethings gotta give

But there are ways to offset expenses that are open to high earners. I'm not a tax accountant but are cars not 'leased' and every meal out claimed for? Certainly where I work, the upper end are on £170k+ and they are putting in claims for £400 a night hotel rooms, Ipads/Iphones (unless given them), petrol expenses, business class flights unless paid for by work in which case they keep the frequent flyer points. Plus they oder kit for their 'home office'.Our head person gets a free house, living, chauffeur, flights home etc and a salary of £240k plus he is not a UK resident

What ThePopsie PArker says

And I wonder how many of the top 50 economists earn enough not to be impartial? Most I would suggest.

I get teh argument about retaining employers of higher paid workers, but equally the one about higher earners in more generic companies sucks- becuase tehre is plenty of evidence that lots of well qualified people are either unemployed or in work below their ability (University of Birmingham research in news today to cite one such study) and the posts can then be filled with someone willing to accept the rate and their jobs can be filled and.... well and people get their lives back on track and started.

And you know the Government is willing to count my £3113 per annum carer's allowance as taxable income thus affecting tax credits for DH etc, so it's hard to feel sympathy.

If there's evidence that it costs more toa dminister than it brings in then I can see the arguments for ditching it; but on the request of 50 highly paid people regardless of their profession- not so much.

LMAO at type popsie parker

Popsie is not a word I would associate with TPP

Oh and the thing about paying for childcare to work longer hours etc

Well it's not always true is it, we all know self employed people working all hours and scraping by, especially right now

But there would surely be a stronger argument for making childcare tax deductible?

I think your sentiment is right, the trouble is it doesn't work. The selfish among the very wealthly pay very little (no) income tax as it is because there are accountants specialising in tax "schemes" solely for the purpose of avoiding tax. The more "punative" taxations is the more clients these accountants have.

OTOH I quite like paying tax, it does afterall mean that I'm earning a decent living and contributing to society, but then I'm a Socialist and not everyone sees it like that

I've just had a bonus which I paid 40% tax on. Yes it was galling to only get £600 for every £1000 I'd worked hard for, but then my DCs get to go to free schools, the police turned up promptly when we were burgled and DS1 had excellent and kind, prompt treatment when needed at A & E. DH also benefited from JSA when he was temporalily unemployed last year. I think I get reasonable value for the tax I pay and am grateful to know that the saftey net of the state exists when needed. I don't really mind that others benfit from it too.

Unfortunately (sweeping generalisation warning) the motivation/characteristics that make people very high earners tend also to meant they don't like to share, hence the tax avoidance schemes.

I used to think that when people where on 50% tax, that meant half of the pay went on tax, but soon learned that it doesn't work like that,, if you earn say £150k then the first £35k is taxed at the basic 20%, then between £35,001 to £150k is at 40% then the rest at 50%.

There is no jealousy on my part, for most jobs earning over £150k you have to sell your soul (in fact also for those earning considerably less that that) and I've been fortunate to be able to choose not to go down that route...

However if it was up to me, I'd like to see a system (globally, so greedy fuckers people can't say "oh we'll take our money elsewhere") where no-one can earn more than say, 15 times what someone else earns. I don't think anyone's job is worth more than 15 times more than anyone else's.

I think we need to move away from 'letting the market decide'. Markets are stupid, irrational and desperately unfair, as the last few years have shown, in spades.

We need a more egalitarian society, a more egalitarian planet, in fact.

Ah create me too wrt tax LMAO

I have a small busines sbut can;t currently do any hours due to odd bits of crap.

Even teh tax odffice bod was quite amazed that I did not want to deregister for tax purposes and instead would rather keep it dormant and pay NI just so I could feel better about myself for contributing.

but it helps nonetheless.

the first £35k is taxed at the basic 20%

Also there are personal allowances to consider so it's not even the first £35k at 20%. Or is it 22%?

fleshwound - "It makes a mockery of the argument that somehow people should pay more income tax so that they can pay for govt services"

Government services, pensions, benefits etc are paid for though income tax, other taxes (rates, VAT, duty) etc. Oh yes and borrowing heavily.

porcamisera - yes it's only on what they earn above £150k is taxed at 50% and used to be at 40%. "Something's gotta give". Exactly. Either services are cut, or those who earn a lot are taxed more or those who earn a little are taxed more.

I pay 50% in Belgium and I earn NOWHERE near 150k. The threshold is about 37k euros I believe. I don't work an 80 hour week either

Like AlpinePony, I don't mind because services are much better and I don't have to send dd to a private school to ensure she gets a good education.

There is no evidence at all to suggest people leave the UK to pay less tax, likewise there's no evidence that business moves abroad and none to suggest people move offices here to pay less than elsewhere.

Unless one is completely personally unconnected life moves are never just about the money, and certainly not when the difference is an extra £40k on top of a £200k salary. I just don't buy these arguments.

Well....yes I understand I am very well off - but I have worked extremely hard all my life, paid significant sums to take additional qualifications, and made many personal sacrifices to get where I am today. Totally my choice, and I appreciate how lucky I am.

And you may say I can afford the tax but actually money is now pretty tight - mortgage, school fees etc. Of course I know I am not choosing between food and electricity, and I spend enough time on MN to know many people are in that position, so I realise my situation is totally different.

But my tax rate now, combined with my childcare costs (because yes I pay for a super nanny to give the children great care when I am not there) has actually made me completely rethink whether it is worth my working at all. Because yes I too suffer 20% VAT, high inflation etc as well. My 'net take home pay' once I deduct tax, childcare (and all her taxes and national insurance, dont forget), cleaner, and all the other costs I incur through working whether its clothes, shoes, haircuts or labour-saving costs or simply not being able to shop around, is looking quite derisory.

Quite seriously, I could give up my high flying, high paying job, stay home, and not be very much worse off. In fact I might be happier.

So how does that benefit the economy? I stop paying taxes, my nanny, cleaner, gardener etc lose their jobs, the shops and services I use all lose income...net net the country is economically worse off.

The 50% tax rise had nothing to do with sensible economics and everything to do with a politically motivated gesture by a Labour government against the better off. And I write as a Labour voter.

So yes, YABU.

Agree with create

If you moan that your huge fortune is cut by an extra £10k due to tax then you should do some volunteering and get a grip about how fortunate you are....go to a local hospice and check out how your money is spent.

Also there are personal allowances to consider so it's not even the first £35k at 20%. Or is it 22%?

Yeah PA are taken into consideration, most people would have a pa of £7475 that is free of tax, but there is other things that count towards PA, too many to go into. The tax rate is 20%