To not be sure who is wrong in the Golly dispute?

[Mitmoo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2034203/Grandmother-faces-court-placing-Golliwog-window-dispute-neighbour-black-wife.html

OK it's a DM to flame me but never the less..........

A grandmother has a longrunning dispute over boundary issues, which I know from personal experience can be extremely distressing, even though in my case it was just a part of my small back garden not serious land as in this case.

The grandmother IMO was probably being racist in putting the golly in her window, but it is in her house and no one is being forced to look at it. She says it is a grandchild's toy and was put there only while tidying up. Other neighbour was so offended they photographed it!

But AIBU in thinking the other couple were being ridiculous to go to the police about it and now the original woman (probably in the wrong, don't buy the grandchilds toy story) could be facing two years in jail?

Perhaps there is an argument for granny being a nut in this day and age to buy a golly for a child, while admittedly loved the badges from the jamjars in the 70's.

Ultimately it is a doll, in her house, on her windowsill, she's wrong, she's probably racist but how can this be a good use of our courts, our legal system, this is a neighbour dispute.

How can they prove what was in her mind when she placed the golly in the window sill? AIBU in thinking these families are as bad as each other and are blowing this up out of all proportion, while accepting boundary disputes do get under your skin big time.

It seems to me involving the police was vindictive and a court case over this is unnecessary?

It's the sort of behaviour if I saw it I would say "silly cow" or similar and move on.

Two wrongs and all that. Not defending racist behaviour for a second just seems to me this has been blown out of proportion in making this a court case with possible jail time for having a golly on your windowsill.

Particularly as I am not sure they can prove her intent when putting it there.
We are supposed to be in dire financial straights as a country, how much is this case costing?

OR AIBU?

pendeen that's about the size of it, two ridiculous people must be a lot of fun being them. [sarcy emoticon].

They have so much wealth yet waste their time on nonsense. Both should be ashamed of themselves. I bet they both feel rather foolish now it's gone national.

They'll make lots of money for lawyers. Which is nice.

minimischief
things are only rascist if they are used in a rascist way

BULL The history behind Golliwogs is racist. end of.

So even if an innocent child cuddles one as she goes to sleep every night the Golliwog is still a racist symbol that is what makes that particular 'thing' racist, that child isnt racist but the Golliwog is and always will be.

Why do you think on the whole people no longer give them to children to play with? because their meaning has over the years been questioned, identified and recognised as offensive and as having no reasonable place in modern society.

Have a look at this website both myself and Tethersend linked to upthread...it may educate you somewhat.

So if a black person owns a gollie then I presume that they too are racist towards other black people? Or would you just call dh, his mum, dad, sisters and brothers ignorant?

Show me the black person with a golly.

I think the golly-owner should be sentenced to work in a sweat-shop 6 weeks, making a children's toy of her neighbour's choice.

Or fined. Which is more likely if found guilty. I doubt a judge would bang her up for two years.

If it's deemed legal to sell them, then it's legal to own them and legal to put them in your window., I don't see how this prosecution can possible be successful!

Of course a black person could never be racist or ignorant

Jacqueline, I've never met your DH, his mum, dad, sisters or brother; I couldn't possibly comment on whether or not they are racist. However, if they own a gollywog, they own a racist toy.

'I think the golly-owner should be sentenced to work in a sweat-shop 6 weeks, making a children's toy of her neighbour's choice'

..or a marmalade factory?

"things are only rascist if they are used in a rascist way"

And this would further prove the point that the gollywog is indeed a symbol of racism as it has been used as a tool of racial discrimination for an exceedingly long time.

And knowing someone who is black or having black friends does not mean you do not have some degree of racist tendencies. If you don't want to acknowledge that the doll is racist, that's fine, but at least own your deliberate ignorance and don't use the "I have black friends" statement as a way to absolve yourself.

Well my husband had a golly as did his brothers and sisters that his Mum and Dad bought for them - they are all black Zimbabweans. None of them find gollies racist.

In fact dh has stated that growing up it was nice to have a black toy to play with, he understands that gollies have roots in racism quite clearly because of the personalities and stories that were built around the dolls. He does not find them ugly or weird to look at and loved playing with his (which is still at his family home in Zimbabwe)

He says (and I can't clarify this as I haven't been but have no reason to disbelieve him) that several children he knew in Zim had gollies and they were never an issue.

Make of that what you will, maybe it's a cultural thing I don't know.

What I do know is that our children play with gollies, my daughter has a handmade black soft doll that has a blacker than black face and black hair made of string, big white eyes and huge kissable lips that we bought from the local W.I. She loves it, she named it Betty and was thrilled to have a doll that looked like her!

I like the idea of marmalade manufacture, followed by sewing Paddington Bear toys.

And the jars could have "made with resentment by a suspected racist"! I hate those "made with love" stickers.

opinionatedmum "show me the black person with a golly"

me

"Well my husband had a golly as did his brothers and sisters that his Mum and Dad bought for them - they are all black Zimbabweans. None of them find gollies racist."

They are wrong, gollies are racist.

His golly he had as a child was racist.

His friends' gollies were racist.

Your DD's golly is racist.

"So if a black person owns a gollie then I presume that they too are racist towards other black people? Or would you just call dh, his mum, dad, sisters and brothers ignorant?"

I would indeed say the black person who owns a golly was ignorant unless it was for a very particular reason that countered this, such as using it as a tool to educate young people on racist symbols of the past IYSWIM. Otherwise, I would indeed say this person was truly ignorant on the history of his or her own race.

I don't know ONE African or Caribbean person who would proudly own a Gollywog and have never seen one in an African or Caribbean home.

Tether - do you not believe that an objects meaning can change over time then or is it always cut and dry?

As an African I can honestly say that not all Africans from back home are as attuned the significance of Gollywogs as those who would have grown up with them in the context of living in the west for instance, it is a different dynamic.

Although I do think your DH and his family should be old enough to detach themselves from the sentimentality they feel towards these dolls to look at them in the bigger global context.

Well, I'm keeping my golly because I love him. To bin him would be to hate him.

Doesn't this bring up another issue? Why are there still so few dolls with black skin, without a dubious, dehumanising origin?

I can quite see why a child might like some of the modern Gollys as a toy, but it shouldn't be the only toy your DD could find that looks like her!

"Tether - do you not believe that an objects meaning can change over time then or is it always cut and dry?"

Yes it can. But this particular one hasn't.

I have just read these replies to DH and he can't stop laughing.

He would like it made clear that he is attuned to the significance of the golliewog and in fact knew a lot more about it than I ever did (and I like to think I'm pretty clued up on this stuff) and having grown up in Zimbabwe with a ruling white, racist government he is well aware of their context.

He has no wish to detach himself from the sentimentality he feels towards this doll (although he likes to refer to it as a toy not a doll...that's just far too girly) and would never dream of removing dd's doll from her regardless of what this bigger global context is that you speak of.

TheControversialJessie - I completely agree there should be more types of dolls available, in all colours and with all types of facial features.

In your opinion it hasn't Tethers, in my opinion it has.

I don't think there is anything else to discuss in that line as neither of us will change our minds, that is something I'm sure we can agree on.