To not be sure who is wrong in the Golly dispute?

[Mitmoo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2034203/Grandmother-faces-court-placing-Golliwog-window-dispute-neighbour-black-wife.html

OK it's a DM to flame me but never the less..........

A grandmother has a longrunning dispute over boundary issues, which I know from personal experience can be extremely distressing, even though in my case it was just a part of my small back garden not serious land as in this case.

The grandmother IMO was probably being racist in putting the golly in her window, but it is in her house and no one is being forced to look at it. She says it is a grandchild's toy and was put there only while tidying up. Other neighbour was so offended they photographed it!

But AIBU in thinking the other couple were being ridiculous to go to the police about it and now the original woman (probably in the wrong, don't buy the grandchilds toy story) could be facing two years in jail?

Perhaps there is an argument for granny being a nut in this day and age to buy a golly for a child, while admittedly loved the badges from the jamjars in the 70's.

Ultimately it is a doll, in her house, on her windowsill, she's wrong, she's probably racist but how can this be a good use of our courts, our legal system, this is a neighbour dispute.

How can they prove what was in her mind when she placed the golly in the window sill? AIBU in thinking these families are as bad as each other and are blowing this up out of all proportion, while accepting boundary disputes do get under your skin big time.

It seems to me involving the police was vindictive and a court case over this is unnecessary?

It's the sort of behaviour if I saw it I would say "silly cow" or similar and move on.

Two wrongs and all that. Not defending racist behaviour for a second just seems to me this has been blown out of proportion in making this a court case with possible jail time for having a golly on your windowsill.

Particularly as I am not sure they can prove her intent when putting it there.
We are supposed to be in dire financial straights as a country, how much is this case costing?

OR AIBU?

[Pagwatch]

Oh god I started to watch but it is butt clenching...

I will try later. Through my fingers

[Mitmoo]

Claw3 The context of Upton's stories are important to note. Now I can't defend Blyton's charicatures and wouldn't but Upon's golly was a very positive character.

"The origin of Golliwogg, as Florence herself said in an interview, "is passing simple. He was born of no deep, dark intentions, nor was he the product of a decadent craving for ugliness on the part of his creator. He simply walked quietly side by side with me out of my own childhood...Tracing him back to as near the beginning as I can get, he came from an American Fair. Farther we cannot go, and must fall back on the Topsy theory - 'he growed'."

.........................
Golliwogg displays a sensitive and chivalrous side, but more importantly is his love of adventure. Throughout the entire series, the basic plot and the principal characters' personalities vary little from the first book. The Golliwogg is a mischievous, headstrong, gallant, lovable hero who initiates every adventure.

.........................

Golliwogg's adventures followed the development of all the latest ideas; when the first bicycles appeared, Golliwogg built some and led his friends on a long, adventurous trip. The invention of the automobile followed and Golliwogg built his own, treating his friends again to new adventures. Two years after the first Zeppelin was launched Golliwogg and his crew took off in their airship. They discovered the North Pole and hung a sign from it saying: "This pole has been discovered by Golliwogg, Peggy, Sarah Jane, Meg and Weg and the Midget." This was some twenty-six years before Christopher Robin, Winnie-the-Pooh, and their 'expotition' arrive to repeat the deed.

Upton's books have no evil creatures, no scheming witches. There are dangers to face and challenges to be met, but they are usually based on a misunderstanding and solved through learning to see another character's viewpoint.


Again I can only repeat that it has subsequently been used by some racists to insult black people but people who loved the golly stories, back in decades gone by, the golly badges etc. are not racist, just liked a loveable heroic character.

[Claw3]

Great, a postive black slave Mitmoo.

[FreudianSlipper]

great post PagWatch

[SiamoFottuti]

don't be ridiculous Mitmoo. Of course she would say that, you think she's going to say "yes, it was based on nasty stereotypes of black slaves"?

[carabos]

Putting the Golly in the window was intentionally racist IMO - cringingly petty, meant to cause offence. How she thought she would get away with it god only knows. Horrible horrible thing to do and she deserves to be publicly humiliated. Lots of people in the older generation have these attitudes and we keep letting them off the hook because they are old, but fgs they aren't blind or deaf, they watch TV, read and engage with the community - they know its unacceptable today.

[Mitmoo]

Claw Uptons Golly is not a slave, he's not even an equal, he's a leader. UPton has taken the slave and empowered them with the wider allegorical message that people shouldn't be judged on colour but for who they are.

Upton's Golly is not a symbol for racism, the opposite in fact is true as her Golly is an empowered leader of their peer group who is a loved and respected character with the white people looking foolish and narrowminded for taking a short amount of time to appreciate him.

[porcamiseria]

mitmoo


stop going on about this bloody fucking "postive gollywog" you found on google, and are copying and pasting in

noone is convinved

NOONE


STOP IT

POSTIVE GOLLYWOG, WELL i NEVER!!!!!

[Claw3]

Mitmoo, Upton had a caricature of a black slave as a child growing up, this is what her gollywog was based on. Of course in those days, it was ok to give your children black slave dolls to play with, as it was also ok to own slaves. These caricatures are based on black faced minstrels, who acted in sterotypical behaviour of black slaves and had names such as 'coon'

Whether she loved or hated slaves or her doll is beside the point. Whether generations have grown up innocently loving the golly symbol or doll, doesnt change the fact that the golliwog was based on black slaves.

'i loved it innocently as a child' doesnt change its orgins.

[carriedababi]

sounds liek they all need they heads banging together

[SiamoFottuti]

Is that right Mitmoo?So then why does he have th face of a blacked up minstrel, in itself a nasty stereotypical representation of a slave? See if you can find somehting to cut and paste about that, will you?

[AmberLeaf]

Amber You've missed an important part of Upton's book. "The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls and a Golliwogg. The 1895 book included a character named the "Golliwogg," who was first described as "a horrid sight, the blackest gnome", but who quickly turned out to be a friendly character, and is later attributed with a "kind face

Mitmoo

Firstly its the connotations that simply by being really dark/black that meant he was a 'horrid sight' but then actually turned out to be friendly and having a kind face.

Thats like saying 'oh yeah hes black...but hes alright'

I have heard people saying crap like that growing up and it is racist however well intended.

Any black doll that any white child of that era would have played with would have been based on a black slave that is why it is not a positive representation however 'friendly' or 'kindly' they were portrayed to be....it is patronising


Again please read [if you havent already] this site which explains why Golliwogs and other racist caricatures are not positive and never will be.

[grovel]

Filibear, you should give some reasons for your argument. "End of".

[SiamoFottuti]

They are already there, why should she bother telling you yet again?

[grovel]

Actually I was just irritated by your "end of". Hate - it but that's my problem.

[maypole1]

Pc gone made you can't even call a black person sambo with out some nutter wanting the police called


She vomits all over her well placed golly wog

And all these people that had gollys as children have one thing in common they were all White don't thing wogs were that big in jamica ay

Like these people who insist on wanting to be allowed to call people pakis

Even though Asian people find it offensive and we know the context of the word in the uk which is not a flattering one

We just have to accept that some people no matter who offensive to black people will just want these items

I read a thing about People wanting Nazi merobila why who knows but some people who are that way inclined like this sort of thing


And saying you have a gay friend is a mood point just like having a gay brother dose not mean you hate gays

The del have black Members dose not mean they are a far right group

[Pendeen]

Whatever the sentiments about gollywogs (I can understand the arguments and sympathise with those who are offended) however, Mrs Mason's actions by placing it in her window were obvious and anyone with an ounce of sense can see that it was a deliberate attempt to annoy Mrs O'Donnell.

It succeeded however Mrs O'Donnel then retaliated by calling the police.

Two silly women who should be ashamed of themselves.

[maypole1]

Agreed I don't give a fig if some arse wants to keep a golly in their home but its becomes a different thing when you display it in the window to ward off any black people, like some demented bnp Member


My mil has somone next door in the us who displays a confederate flag in their garden which basically means


We don't like black or spanish thanks

My view is keep you hate to yourself

[Mitmoo]

Re: Upton I'll say no more all been said, you can either see the slave empowered to be a leader as Upton has done or slave made into a toy (even though upton didn't patent the Golly as a toy and lost a fortune as a result).

Pendeen Thats the conclusion I came to in the end - two stupid women who should know better!

[AmberLeaf]

Even if you see it as a 'slave empowered to be a leader' its is still a slave!

A slave is not a positive representation of a black person, there are plenty of positive representations of black people that could be used....BUT as it was made during a time when black people were outwardly viewed as inferior that just wasnt going to happen.

[tethersend]

I bet the slaves were clamouring to buy symbols of their empowerment once they tasted freedom. In fact, has anyone checked; did the golliwog end slavery? Just a thought. What with it being so empowering and all.

Anyway, Mitmoo, it would be marvellous if you could answer my questions about your perception of The Black and White Minstrel Show from earlier on: Do you see the Black and White Minstrel show as a much-loved comedy show representing black people? Any idea why it's not shown any more? After all, it was very popular in the 60s and 70s...

Cheers.