To not be sure who is wrong in the Golly dispute?

[Mitmoo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2034203/Grandmother-faces-court-placing-Golliwog-window-dispute-neighbour-black-wife.html

OK it's a DM to flame me but never the less..........

A grandmother has a longrunning dispute over boundary issues, which I know from personal experience can be extremely distressing, even though in my case it was just a part of my small back garden not serious land as in this case.

The grandmother IMO was probably being racist in putting the golly in her window, but it is in her house and no one is being forced to look at it. She says it is a grandchild's toy and was put there only while tidying up. Other neighbour was so offended they photographed it!

But AIBU in thinking the other couple were being ridiculous to go to the police about it and now the original woman (probably in the wrong, don't buy the grandchilds toy story) could be facing two years in jail?

Perhaps there is an argument for granny being a nut in this day and age to buy a golly for a child, while admittedly loved the badges from the jamjars in the 70's.

Ultimately it is a doll, in her house, on her windowsill, she's wrong, she's probably racist but how can this be a good use of our courts, our legal system, this is a neighbour dispute.

How can they prove what was in her mind when she placed the golly in the window sill? AIBU in thinking these families are as bad as each other and are blowing this up out of all proportion, while accepting boundary disputes do get under your skin big time.

It seems to me involving the police was vindictive and a court case over this is unnecessary?

It's the sort of behaviour if I saw it I would say "silly cow" or similar and move on.

Two wrongs and all that. Not defending racist behaviour for a second just seems to me this has been blown out of proportion in making this a court case with possible jail time for having a golly on your windowsill.

Particularly as I am not sure they can prove her intent when putting it there.
We are supposed to be in dire financial straights as a country, how much is this case costing?

OR AIBU?

[Mitmoo]

Itsnearlysummer interesting perspective, to me a golly is a much loved memory from my childhood. I wouldn't buy a child one now but am struggling to see why the golly is racist.

I can see the term gollywog would be offensive as the term "wog" has offensive connotations today, that weren't there when golly was invented. The name change to "golly dolly" or just "golly" removes the racist connotations for me as he is such a happy jolly and positive figure.

Others obviously don't share that view, therefore wouldn't dream of buying one today.

[itisnearlysummer]

mitmoo 2 women on The Wright Stuff said that they didn't find the dolls themselves offensive, but if they were used as an offensive tool then that would be different - e.g. if they were likened to one.

So if the grandmother in the DM article was doing the latter (which I suspect she might have been) then she was being offensive, but actually owning one isn't illegal so I struggle to see how they could prosecute.

As someone who tries very hard not to upset or offend people, I wouldn't buy one, just in case.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

This was on "Wright Stuff" this morning. I was giggling at Lowri Turner saying she would never give her daughter a golly because it plays on a stereotype, she'd rather give her daughter a Barbie. Who doesn't play on stereotypes at all

[Whatmeworry]

she would never give her daughter a golly because it plays on a stereotype, she'd rather give her daughter a Barbie

Cue coffee over keyboard :o

[MissMap]

When I was a child my Great Aunt made me a Golly and a Clown. They both have exaggerated features common to each group. The Clown has a white face. I struggle to see how a black person can be offended by the Glolly when a white person is not offended by the clown.

Obviously the original term used for the Golly is offensive and my family never used it, even in the seventies. My half sister is of mixed race and she feels that this sort of silliness impacts adversely on how the main stream public view true acts of racism.

Re. the article; The lady who put the Golly in the window is obviously very petty and childish and is equally matched in these characteristics by her neighbours who took offense at such purile tactics.
Pot and Kettle

[slavetofilofax]

This whole story is ridiculous. Not all black people find the golly offensive, so why are so many people assuming that this woman put her golly in the window deliberately to offend?

She might have done, but she might not, you just have no way of knowing. My granny is not racist but she is of another generation, and I'm sure would think that the golly is just a doll. The fact that some people now say it is something racist would make her say 'that's ridiculous' and carry on as before. She collected the jam jar badges for me when I was little, so I love gollys. Doesn't make me racist. I've seen them for sale and been tempted to buy one, but have then been put off because some small minded people would assume that I was racist in a 'Iz it coz I is black?' type way. If you are not directly abusing someone, how can you be punished for being racist?

[bagpusss]

Ridiculous to be insulted by a doll! Golliwog dolls are only racist if someone thinks they are - all in the mind. And what's the difference between a golliwog and Upsy Daisy?
Is Bob the Builder a sly dig at the Poles who work in construction, or at the Irish who were the construction workers of the 70s?
Were the spitting image puppets acceptable apart from those depicting people with darker than caucasian skin?
What a nonsense!

[porcamiseria]

it was racist slur, serves her right

[Lunabelly]

AFAIC, the worst offenders in this are the Mail for using the W word. I thought that Gollies were considered racist because of the name?

My brother bought one for DD3, he's handsome and beautifully dressed chap (the doll not my brother) - and as a child I had a rag doll with white skin and red hair and an almost identical face. Surely it would be more offensive to not have dolls of other colours? To my kids he's simply a loved toy, and they don't understand why I panic if they leave him in public view...

I have experienced some racism (I used to be called the P word a lot as a child as I'm a dusky maiden!) and blatant, constant xenophobia when I lived in Greece (Fucking English whore-witch was my favourite, having a pet cockerel that sat on my shoulder obviously means I was on first-name terms with Satan and ate babies and fluffy kittens)... A dolly wouldn't have upset me me as much as people coming out of their houses to stare and make a cross sign at me did though...that was freaky.

[sue52]

I had one as a child in the fifties and it was a favourite plaything. Times have moved on and they are not appropriate in this day and age. The woman should not have had it in open show and it sounds like an act of contempt towards her neighbour. I'm not sure her actions warrant police intervention though. I also long for the day when Barbie is considered with equal disdain.

[SiamoFottuti]

I can't beleive how many of you are struggling to see the racism in a gollywog. Really? You can't see how a toy that was specifically designed to be racist, is still a bit racist. Just look at the thing!

[porcamiseria]

bagpuss

FFS!!!! its called a golly WOG! even its name is racist

fucking clueless

[porcamiseria]

check this out, Holland have an even worse version of the gollywog and they parade hm every bloody year

www.globalpost.com/dispatch/benelux/091201/black-pete-saint-nicholas-holland

[Mitmoo]

Porcamiseria they were called gollywogs before the term "wog" was offensive. The term "wogs" from gollywogs, was apparantly because some black people were "Working on Government Services" which then was adopted as a racist term. When that happened the dolls were renamed Golly Dollies or just gollies.

The Golly is not a negative stereotype so why would a doll offend. I wore the badges as a child, we loved collecting them. It would not have entered my head back then to think it had anything racist about it. Kids actually loved them.

[grovel]

Gollywogs were so-named before the term "wog" became a racial slur.

[porcamiseria]

lets agree to disagree eh!

I think this women knew it was offensive and did it anyway and now is in trouble stupid bigoted bitch serves her right

[Mitmoo]

menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1002/1002064_golly_dolls_seized_by_cops.html

More golly madness which ended well with the shop owner not being prosecuted.

[diddl]

Completely off the point, but I think that that barn conversion looks bloody horrible.

[sue52]

Mitmoo The golly is a caricature of a stereotype, the Uncle Tom, forelock tugging, banjo playing, rather slow and stupid person as portrayed in films of the thirties and forties. It is naive to say it is not offensive.

[GwendolineMaryLacey]

Thought police was my first thought too. Yes it probably was meant to be racist but you're supposed to be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt and you can't in this case. To prosecute on the basis of what someone thought is dangerous ground. So to say she could be facing 2 years in prison is absurd.

[Pendeen]

The Masons should be prosecuted for being moronic. The O'Donnells should be prosecuted for wasting police time.

It's pretty clear why the golly was "accidentally" placed there but to involve the police is just a huge waste of public funds.

"Racially aggravated harassment" indeed! Both couples need to grow up.

(And I agree about the barn conversion. I just hope an Architect wasn't involved in that).

[woowoo2]

From the picture, the golly was not put there when tidying up - it is behind the blinds, facing outwards and towards their neighbours house. She has clearly done this on purpose to upset her neighbour

[GaramMasalaGirl]

I grew up in the 70s when racism was more rife. We were regularly chased and beaten by the local skinheads, had dog shit posted through our letter-box and once even had petrol poured through our letter-box.

Aside from this we also experienced general racism from teachers and other professionals. We also had a particularly nasty health visitor who would say awful things about us to her colleague but didn't realise that we actually understood what she was saying (my mum couldn't speak English very well and she assumed that we has children couldn't either)

I remember the golly badges and also remember being frightened of the children wearing them as it clearly denoted to us that they belonged to that part of society that were intolerant to others.

I think the dolls are offensive because of what they represent, it doesn't matter that they are aesthetically pleasing to the eye or soft and cuddly to touch. They represent something negative and quite frightening for some people and therefore, the dolls are offensive.

[ThePrincessRoyalFiggyrolls]

It may well be that it is there as an offensive gesture, but can it be proved without reasonable doubt? Surely (although slightly different I accept ) anyone who displays a BNP poster can also be classed in this bracket - although imho they really are offensive but hey ho - and they can be all over the shop at certain times....................

I very much doubt this woman would actually serve time for this, and it is not on a front facing window but a rear facing one which admittedly probably looks over the neighbours property but they don't have a flaming cross or white hoods............. Can I sit on the boundry line about this one because perhaps the neighbours really are trying to find anything that they can possibly see as a dig at them?

[Mitmoo]

Sue52 Enid Blytons' stories were of mischievious gollies, but Upton who also wrote about them during that era had the gollies as the heroes. Offence and racism it seems is in the eye of the beholder. During the same time there will be been films about very bad white people, gay people, Chinese people, German people etc. etc. ad infinitum.

Of course you can find books of the time which were negative equally there are others who have gollies as positive characters.

You may see it as naive, it might be just that you don't have the whole picture and are relying on one portrayal to come to your conclusion.

Just a thoughtl