childcare costs

[splashymcsplash]

This is something that has been brought up time and time again.. childcare costs are very expensive, especially in London/SE.

AIBU to ask you to sign this e-petition so maybe, just maybe, something could be done about it?

Jelly - I didn't say they weren't worth it. I pay £4.25 an hour for each of mine - they do a fantastic job and I don't for one minute think they should be paid less.

Ridiculous is probably the wrong word though I agree!

MamaChocoholic unplanned but not unwanted children will always throw a spanner into the works even with the most organised families and i am sure you will juggle things around and somehow cope.

But if you had a governmnet policy that funded peoples choices to have as many children as they liked and the tax payer would pick up the tab for most if not all the childcare then that is wrong.

Does the world need all these extra children, is their jobs, space and resorses for them to grow up and use? I know these things have nothing to do with funding of childcare but they are things that should be considered with the government is deciding policy. So if a government wanted us all to have large families you can bet that funding for childcare would be a higher prioty than it is.

I also think it's one where the government can't win, actually. If they subsidised it too heavily then they would get accused of trying to force women back into work.

Also many parents could downside to a smaller house or crappier car.We had 3 under 18 months(twins)and excepted pretty early on that life was going to be tight for quite some time.We had years of IVF previous to this so had experienced the alternative ie the possibility of a childless life.

People just expect waaaaaay to much these days.They expect the same sized house, car and a family on top.Sorry but paying for kids is hard work, if you don't think you can afford them don't have them.

Fact-kids cost money. You want them,you pay for them.

I should add that because I only have one before and after school child I also work as a school dinner lady to fit in with the children's holidays. I hope to be minding full-time very soon so I can give that job up and concentrate solely on why I worked hard on my NVQ Level 3 Early Years, Care and Education for but I won't hold my breath, there are far too many nurseries cropping up as well as Childminders being registered.

I cannot afford to go out to work, I have no help whatsoever towards childcare yet my DH earns and pays 40% tax on his earnings yet they forget we also are supporting our elder two at university and college out of his wage as well as the usual outgoings.

cantspel, I certainly don't think childcare should be free. but I do think it should pay to work (or at least be closer to cost neutral). it can't be beyond the wit of the bright financial people we're supposed to have in this country to devise a means by which it does, surely?

Childcare is subsidised! - in the form of childcare tax credits! - Provided you are working over 16 hours (or both of you working 16+ hours if in a relationship). They pay up to 80% of your childcare provided they are registered. All three of my children have been in childcare since the age of 6 months old - this includes nurseries and childminders.

Yes it has been expensive at times - especially in the long holidays but tax credits really do help and without them i would have been paying double what i earn a week in childcare which is obviously not worth it. Term times my childcare is just £16 a week since they are now all in school and go to various clubs and afterschool playschemes so that i can work.

And all 3+4 year olds get their free 15 hours a week Nursery Education Grant so that is also a subsidy.
If you can't afford to pay the extra then don't have children - you cannot expect everybody else to pay that too!

www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/TaxCredits/Gettingstarted/whoqualifies/Childrenandtaxcredits/DG_073803

On the other hand in the Summer holidays I paid our childminder £4 per child per hour (£12 an hour for 7 hours, 4 days a week = £336) plus my three aren't the only children she has - I don't remember the ratios but my 3 are all over 5 and she has toddlers with her and a couple more over 5) So, provided you can get the children in then childminders CAN earn quite a bit.

YABU

who will pay instead? The government? who will pay for this? the taxpayer, you and me!

I wish we lived in other lovely countries where you get Nursey for £500 a month but we dont

tough shit i am afraid

there is no money so whats the point? only worth doing then when (a) economy better and (b) there is an election coming up

Jack there is a quality of care issue re childminders.

I get inundated with requests but turn down a lot as sorry I feel one 2 year old and one 3 year old is enough-for them, me and my children. Each child brings a paperwork load,takes up space and attention.

I don't agree with shoe horning masses of kids in to make a fast buck.I want the children in my care to have a quality,safe day not a stressed day.

Oh yeah I understand the issue of having too many kids at one time - I was meaning overall, not at any one point...

My nursery charges £45 a day. I think it's a bargain as I reckon the days I'm a sahm my worth is far more than that!

I charge my clients (freelance) a lot more than that per day.

I do not believe the state should subsidise childcare any more than it already does (vouchers, entitlement at 3). I certainly don't want to pay any more feckin taxes to do this.

I agree with the poster above - you choose to have children. Make sure you can afford your choices when you make them.

I am really shocked by the attitudes on this thread.

All this talk of 'why should I pay taxes to support other people's children', FFS, you already do! It's called a free state education. What's the difference between taking care of children at 5 yo and taking care of them at 2 yo?

Cheaper child care means more people can work more and so less benefits would be necessary.

It creates more demand for child care, so more jobs.

You would never think, reading this thread, that many European countries offer free or cheap child care. It's not impossible and obviously many countries see some benefit in it. Why can't the UK do it?

I'm afraid unplanned pregnancies count as choosing in my book too. Every time you have penetrative sex you take the risk. Don't want the risk - stick to your mouth and hands

dreaming - like say France or Spain? Yes because their economies are in a great place aren't they?

I think the difference between starting at 5 and starting at 2 would be a whole lot of £'s!!

YANBU

I'll have 2 lots of nursery fees to pay when I go back to work after ML. Once the nursery fees are paid that will be pretty much all of my wage gone. DP will cover the mortgage and other bills etc but then thats his wage gone aswell. Im not bothered about money for myself as I rarely treat myself to anything anyway [guilt], but it worries me that we wont have anything left at all for emergencies (washer on its way out, roof needs looking at, need an outside wall repairing - am just burying my head in the sand hoping they will magically repair themselves) Not entitled to WTC or CTC as earned just over the threshold last year as earnings are bonus related which is going to be limited when I go back. Luckily when we earned a reasonable amount we managed to get alot of work in the house done and Ive saved a little bit up for this DC but its still going to be shit

I dont even know where to begin to find a childminder in the area either, there dont seem to be many registered

When I fell pregnant with my second child we were both in good jobs, and could afford the childcare. A month before my second child was born my husband lost his job. I dread thinking about what would happen if he doesn't find one which pays enough to cover the nursery bill. We'd get no help with cost, as he wouldn't be working, but would have to give 2 months notice to cancel the places. And how could he find work without childcare in place?

I don't think that those who work in childcare are overpaid, however, especially if you're in the paybracket which is too much to get help but too little to pay everrything without help, it is very very difficult.

For the state it doesn't make sense to pay tax credits and other benefits to people who sit at home, because they can't afford to go to work instead of subsidising their childcare, enabling them to work and pay taxes and N.I. Also, employers lose valuable members of their workforce and their experience if they're forced to give up their job for financial reasons.

Could we get a touch of perspective here. The most important thing is that kids are well looked after, fed and clothed. If it's cheaper to do this by not working then so be it. In most cases our kids did not ask to be born, we chose to have them. Thus we make sacrifices. If that means a parent (note I'm not using the term mother as that's a whole new debate) stays at home to do this then what's the problem. Oh of course I forgot, looking after children is boring, mundane and lonely, that's why we go out to our careers and pay child workers crap wages because the job is deemed to be crap.

I think we need to approach this whole issue from the 'what's best for the kids' perspective, not what I want for me!!! We are such a selfish lot these days.

France wants people to have children and mother's to work though, and although creches etc are subsidised the quality is lower than the UK. We get a 50% tax rebate on our joint tax bill on our nanny's salary but pay 25% above her salary in employer's charges.

In the UK schemes like childcare vouchers or WTC are trying to perform the same role but the entire taxation structure is working against subsidisation.

*mothers...stray apostrophe!

WidowWadman - The state doesn't pay anything to sahms - I don't follow the last part of your post.

Voluptua - I think the part you ignore (mother vs parent) is extremely important. I agree though - more responsability for having kids needs to be taken.

well, I do think that childcare vouchers should be extended so that you can buy the full amount you need from pre-tax money not just £243, that would make the difference to a lot of working parents, but beyond that, no, you have kids, you pay for them.

We don't get any CTC/WTC, but we do get childcare vouchers. £243 a month each is taken from our gross pay so we pay less tax. Also, it's removed from wage at source, so I don't notice it at all.
More uptake by employers on this scheme would help, especially for those not entitled to CTC etc.
I never grudge paying for childcare, I'm extremely grateful he is in a great place.

What Lydia said. Exactly.

pommedechocolat - if the partner of the SAHM isn't earning enough, the SAHM will get state subsidies in form of benefits.

And childcare vouchers are a joke - when you earn so little that claiming them would push you under the minimum wage you can't claim. And that the amount you can claim is the same no matter how many children you have in care, capped at a ridiculously low point is stupid, too