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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel short changed by feminism?

309 replies

ThroughTheRoundWindow · 03/09/2011 21:09

So here's the thing. Back in the day the young women of the baby boom generation demanded the choice to work or care for their babies. some of them went out to work, and because their families had two incomes they could afford to spend more on their houses and on filling them with consumer goods.

But more families with more money pushed up the price of houses.

Roll on a generation and it is impossible to afford a mortgage on one moderate income. To pay for a house you both need to work. Well that isn't true, we could have either bought a ex-council house on a dodgy estate, or I could have married a much richer man. (But we couldn't bring ourselves to raise a child on an estate and I fell in love with a council employee).

Had a been born a generation earlier my husband's local government salary would have paid for our modest house in an unfashionable suburb and I could (if I had chosen) have given up work to care full time for our family. Instead I have no choice - I have to return to work and leave my baby in daycare.

Without feminism I could have done what comes most naturally to me and been a homemaker. Feminism stole that option from me. Now I have to leave my baby to be raised by a stranger and go out to work in a job I care nothing for and get nothing (except a salary) from.

Ok, a little maudlin from too much beer, but someone explain to me why I am genuinely unreasonable to feel this way?

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 04/09/2011 17:30

op feminism isnt to blame for your woes.economics compels you to work.not feminism

carminagoesprimal · 04/09/2011 17:33

Well it's important to me thanks very much

HereBeBolloX · 04/09/2011 17:33

Hmm, that Deborah Orr article is quite interesting, but I think it falls down where she confuses feminism per se with bourgeois feminism. I think a lot of lefties do that (I did myself for years) and because of their very limited understanding of what feminism is, they are hostile to any form of feminism at al, even though logically, they ought to be feminist sympathisers.

Moonferret for the record, I didn't get any of your posts deleted, I only ask for posts to be deleted on the feminist section which is regularly targeted by trolls.

carminagoesprimal · 04/09/2011 17:37

Thank you for taking the time to read it HereBe - I thought it was interesting too.

HereBeBolloX · 04/09/2011 17:40

But why do people blame feminism for the fact that women are still doing most of the childcare and domestic labour, carmina?

Feminists are the people who are saying that they shouldn't, except where they are the only adult in the house.

Feminists say that if there are other adults around, those other adults should be doing their fair share.

If those other adults aren't doing their fair share, then they are to blame for the disproportionate burden of labour on women, not feminism.

Now who could those other adults be, whose behaviour we are always so reluctant to scrutinise, preferring to blame feminism instead?

LineRunner · 04/09/2011 17:45

OP, Please blame the correct 'ism'.

Thatcher-infested capitalism.

sugartongue · 04/09/2011 17:46

Of course YABU!! Before feminism you would have had to live on a council estate because you wouldn't have had the choice to go out to work to afford nicer accommodation...But then living on a council estate was not such a big deal - an awful lot more people did it quite happily. The real culprit is Maggie Thatcher - she started the obsession with home-ownership and sold off a huge proportion of the housing stock so people were forced towards buying a house due to lack of supply of affordable social housing.

All your arguments highlight is the fact that women are not yet equal and we have a long way to go, feminism's job is not yet done.

carminagoesprimal · 04/09/2011 17:58

HereBe - I suppose feminism is the political whipping boy isn't it - always there to blame for something or other - I know from talking to women in RL they feel most of the main political issues have been won - they don't see a need for feminism anymore - I think we need it now more than ever, but with it's focus on media stereotypes and advertising - have you seen the boots advert with the couple in bed? ( she says she's got a headache and he produces some headache pills from behind his back ) - who allowed that? Angry

HereBeBolloX · 04/09/2011 18:08

Yes and I think one of the big problems is that feminism has been rejected by the left because of the misapprehension that "feminism = bourgeois feminism". At least 30 years ago, feminism was firmly embedded in the left (even though some feminists were and are right wing), it was mainstream, anti-sexism and anti-racism were morally equal, even if people weren't always willing to examine their own racism/ sexism/ homophobia etc, at least it was a legitimate subject to discuss if you were a lefty like Deborah Orr is. Now, it's been pushed to the margins even of the movement where it ought to be a central tenet.

carminagoesprimal · 04/09/2011 18:37

Absolutely agree.

HipHopOpotomus · 04/09/2011 18:46

So the shortage/absence of affordable housing is womens fault? Nice one Sad

motherinferior · 04/09/2011 18:50

Is 'running a home' a hugely important job? I mean, er, what's to run? Children, yes, I can see children need a fair amount of care and upkeep. But 'running a home' - er, genuinely, what on earth does that involve?

HereBeBolloX · 04/09/2011 18:55

eYes apparently feminists have run the govt for the last 30 years.

Has anyone yet mentioned the fact that for about 30 years, no government has really had a housing policy except the Right to Buy council houses? The resulting shortage of council houses has been presented as a problem for poor people, because other people don't need to worry about it because they'll buy or rent from private landlords. But of course if there aren't enough council houses, then those people who 30 years ago would have had one, now have to rent privately or buy, which drives up rents and house prices. If there were more social housing, overall housing costs should go down. (Actually I forgot - Labour's policy at the 1997 election was to build more social housing and they lied about it, because they didn't.)

carminagoesprimal · 04/09/2011 19:16

Running a home ( this is purely personal to me and I enjoy doing it - dh attends to the garden and whatever DIY jobs that need doing ( as and when )

  1. Keep it clean! - the kitchen and bathroom should be spotless. The living areas should be clean and tidy but homely and inviting. Bedrooms - sheets washed daily. Hallway kept uncluttered and skirting kept clean. First impressions count.

  2. finances - all bills to be paid on time, ( if possible )

  3. childrens uniforms and school bags sorted out the night before - mornings should be stress free and enjoyable. Make sure you have time in the evenings to help dc with homework

  4. food. Nutritious food available and a good meal plan in place.

  5. get children to after school activities on time.

that's off the top of my head -

HereBeBolloX · 04/09/2011 19:17

Jeez. I've just come back from a house today which stinks of piss and honestly, you wouldn't ask the question about what running a home entails, if you'd been there.

My standards are very very low and this house didn't meet them... Grin

Portofino · 04/09/2011 19:19

Um, I run a home, pay bills, do the ironing, cook food etc and I have a FT job. I don't think it is necessary for running a home to be a FT job in the way that it used to be before internet shopping and automatic washing machines etc. I do employ a cleaner though - but only since recently.

I have dh and a lodger and they also do their share. I am skivvy to noone. Dd now she is getting bigger is also expected to help out.

scottishmummy · 04/09/2011 19:19

we work ft and do that list.
its not some magic miracle its what parents do,but fact is it can be fitted in around both having ft work

youre kind of bigging up tasks most people just do all do

motherinferior · 04/09/2011 19:20

But none of that's a full-time job, surely? I mean, my house is not as clean and tidy as either you or I (even) would like, but my kids are fed - nice food - and they can sort out their own clothes and bookbags and stuff, and the bills are paid by direct debit. And in any case, their father does quite a lot of all that.

LineRunner · 04/09/2011 19:23

Carmina, If my 'job' as a woman involves 'sheets washed daily' then fucking kill me now.

carminagoesprimal · 04/09/2011 19:23

Grin HereBe - I've been to houses that literally stink - some people really do live like pigs -

HereBeBolloX · 04/09/2011 19:23

I think it is if you have pre-school age children around, because they mess everything up.

If you go out to work and you're dropping off the kids at nursery, then it's not so full time because you're all not there to actually mess the place up. If you're there full time, although theoretically you're there to do the cleaning up, you're also there to do the messing up... so being there with DC's actually generates more work.

I think that's how it works out anyway, but I'm open to alternative arguments on that one, I don't have a huge vested interest in it.... Grin

Portofino · 04/09/2011 19:24

Even my cleaner - who is extremely thorough!!! - only does 5 hours per week. My house is spotless after she's been.
In fact I want her to do less cleaning and do the ironing, because I don't like ironing.

scottishmummy · 04/09/2011 19:26

carmina nothing you describe takes 37+hrs a week
and if they do your filling your day with domestic faff unnecessarily
most other people fit that lot in around work

bills paid on time- well direct debit and phone banking make that achievable in minutes

bulk cook and freeze once moth sorts food

motherinferior · 04/09/2011 19:27

O yes to the sheets. As in, oh no not daily.

Portofino · 04/09/2011 19:31

Why does anyone need clean sheets daily?

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