to consider private school even if...

[stella1w]

... it means no holidays, treats, nice clothes etc etc ever for the next 18 years?

My parents scrimped and saved to put me and my sister through private school even though they had a very low income.

I also have a low income but feel I should make all sacrifices necessary.. on the other hand, I don't think putting myself under severe financial stress during the recession would make me such a good parent either.

Feeling guilty either way..

Bright spot is local infant school just got "outstanding" ofsted report, though the juniors was only "satisfactory"

But, but, but. You do realise malcontent that not all independent schools are academically selective?

I for example, have a 3 year old who is starting an independent school next week. She's not flaming well talking yet as she has some kind of speech disorder. But I am very happy based on what I know right now she is in the right place for her in terms of support, etc. And if not, I'll change schools because I am not wedded to any particular school or sector and I will choose what is right for my children imo at the time.

Your opinion is different, fair enough.

If the local infant school got outstanding OFSTED you can at least start there and have another 2 yrs to consider it. If a school got satisfactory the most likely way is up. If it hasn't improved by the time you get to that stage you can think again.

We had a Hobson's choice of one fairly crap primary (I'm paraphrasing ofsted) followed by a Hobson's choice of one fairly crap secondary (ofsted again). No private schools within a reasonable commuting distance. Basically I live in an educational black hole.

Despite all of this DD1 (high achieving academic) is getting the support she needs. Mildly dyslexic DS is getting the support he needs. DD2 will get the support she needs.

That's the point of comprehensive.

Of course I know they're not all academically selective! Queen Ethelburga's isn't, for a start!

But private schools can decide whether to bar people from their door on the basis that they're not rich enough, or not clever enough, or in most cases both. And I'm not sure that can really be argued with as a fact.

And I do know that all the private schools where I live except for QE do have an entrance exam. Don't want to be bothering with the thickies, do we? They might bring the average down!

I refuse to consider QE as any sort of school, actually Shall we stick to that as our point of agreement?

State schools can also accept or bar pupils based on location, religion and siblings.

I do wish you'd refer to them as independent schools. Their independence from the state means they are able to choose entrance criteria themselves. And if it is a decent not-for-profit school with a proper board of governors and a robust bursary system then there is no reason why a child who would otherwise benefit be excluded for "not being rich enough".

And I reiterate the point I made on another thread, that when the state educated child has as much spent on it's not for profit education than an independently educated child, it will be a different scenario entirely.

Well, that is probably a good point of agreement, yes.

But, no, I will refer to them as private schools, because they're private, and closed to poor/thick kids. They're open to the people they want to invite in, just like a private house is.

OP, I'd definitely start off in the outstanding state infant school and see what happens. You'll save £1000s just by putting her in there for 3 years. Then you could see whether the OK junior school will suit her, whether extra tuition would help, or whether she really needs the smaller class sizes/competitive edge of a good private school. Agree a school is not good because it's private. I have friends who send their kids to a school which would make me HE rather than send them there.

And entrance exams (where used) are not randomly used to decide if a child has a place or not. This is not competitive North London after all! It's a starting point. A discussion point and a record of entry.

I know no end of independently educated children who are not academically bright. But they will get decent GCSEs at the end of it, certainly the 5 A-Cs we talked about before.

State schools accept or bar pupils (with the exception of faith schools, with which I disagree anyway) on the basis of catchment because the point of them is to serve the community in which they exist. This also, obviously, has implications for their rules on siblings.

Private schools are private because they shut themselves off from 93% of the country's children. They are NOT ALLOWED IN. And yes maybe my kids could have got themselves a bursary, but that one-in-a-hundred chance is scarcely inclusive, is it? They ARE private. And I won't call them independent (or, still worse, 'indie' schools) just to make some people feel better about choosing a socially exclusive environment for their children to be educated in. Those schools are private. They may be independent as well (of some things, anyway. Admittedly, yes, they're independent of the need to employ qualified teachers, although much less so of the need to satisfy the paying customer and give them the kind of school environment they'd like as a bought commodity) but fundamentally they ARE PRIVATE.

'Not academically bright' is not the same as 'comes from a home where breakfast is rarely provided, books never in evidence, and you can't send them home if ill during school hours as will have serious repercussions' (as is the note on many childrens profile). 'Not academically bright' means no great shakes but has middle class, RICH parents who want them to get their 5 A-Cs, in your world.

And it is a different world, it really is. Don't try to tell yourself it isn't.

I went to private school, partly helped by scholarship and I always swore to send my kids to state school. Mainly because the school I went to was full of very closed minded silver spoon in mouth types - who had no understanding of the experiences of 90% of the real world. And it wasn't that academic either. I always thought I would have been more challenged in a good state school - but maybe not.

It really does depend on your local school. i certainly wouldn't pass up on an outstanding state school in favour of a private school. But if the state school was rubbish I might revise my view and send DC to private.

Personally I wouldn't esp for primary..... I just don't think its worth it if it means that level of sacrifice. I'd rather work a little less hard, and spend time helping DC with homework etc etc and maybe paying for tutoring later on if really necessary.

Sorry only the 'if ill' to 'repercussions' should have been the quotation there.

The rich but not academically bright kids at the private schools are just not the same as the Dannys and the Jakes and the Jaidens in the state schools. But instead of pretending they don't exist, or that if their parents loved them enough they would eat more pasta and send them private, or just barring them at the door, we let them in and do our best for them.

I know which ethos I'd rather my daughter was educated within.

ALL parents at my local State school, which is "good", whose children go into higher tiers in Secondary School have tutors. ALL of them.

They ALL do Kumon/Kip as well as private tuition.

The head of the school has her own children in private eduction, interestingly.

So whilst for a large majority (bright and able, no SEN kids), State school can work very well, there are lots of kids who need a bit of help. So clearly our local State school is failing somewhere?! If everyone needs extra tuition?!

Personally, I wish I did not feel the need to send my DC private. I have great hopes for the Free SChools, but they won't be around in time for us to benefit from...

I have not hey heard from any parents of SEN kids who are at the bottom level of the State System (like my DC1) who are happy about the State system.

Easy to be happy if your child is bright and able anyway...

Malcontent, I know quite a few private schools who take any child, and still have great results in Y6. Those are the schools that must be doing something right! (I think, maybe naively?)

Like you say, easy to get high scores if you are selective at intake.

No way would I do it. If your child blows it, doesn't work hard, whatever I don't see how you will be able to stop yourself from thinking 'we made all those sacrifices'

Anyway, your local infants school sounds perfectly good.

Beware

Friends moved their DD to the local private school, away from the friends at state primary. She went completely off the rails. Stuck out because her parents could not afford skiing holidays, latest clothes, didn't haves nicecar. She found the children very competitive, very materialistic. Can you afford the 'extras' these privileged children will take for granted?

She rebelled. She hated her peers and the teachers, things came to a head and parents sent her back to state school and she has settled.

Frankly I wouldn't waste your money if there is a good state option nearby.

Lots of parents send their kids to my local primary then change to private. A few have sent theirs private and then for various reasons (not just poverty) have transferred them to my kids state comp.

But I would be a nightmare private school parent, as unlike friends of mine I would not be happy if I spent that money an then my daughter decided to become a primary school teacher or beautician. We're still hoping for a Russell Group uni from their state comp.

Why would it be a nightmare if they decided to become a primary school teacher or beautician?
Have you decided in advance what they should do?
Maybe they don't want to go to a Russell group university. I pity the poor DC if you are making sacrifices for what you want them to do. Maybe they won't want to go to university at all.
Certainly don't make sacrifices if you are set in moulding them to what you want-I'm sure that they would rather that you didn't.

We're still hoping for a Russell Group uni from their state comp.

Have you got a very poor comprehensive then? Ours sends to Oxbridge and Russell group as a matter of course every year. My DS went to one-his choice-the comprehensive didn't lessen his choice to do so-I never gave it a thought that it would.

I don't see why it is 'either/or'. People that I know use one or other at different times for different DCs. It is merely a choice (although not open to most) and you can swap around.

I don't know any beauticians but I know lots of primary school teachers. I also know lots of primary school teachers with very good private school/university educations and I don't think they have ever seen themselves as failures/second best/or wasting the money! They chose it as a carrer because it was what they wanted to do.
Is this the 'old chestnut' that you don't need a very good education to teach the under 11s and that reception is just 'babysitting' and that you are far inferior to an A'level teacher?

I would say one very important thing to OP. Only make these sacrifices if you are happy to make them whatever the outcome. Most certainly don't make them with expectations and think the DCs 'owe' you. They may end up pleased but they don't owe you-you had a free choice.

If my parents made sacrifices and constantly made me aware of itthen I would have preferred them to use the state system and have their holidays etc.
However, I am a primary school teacher-and would have chosen it even if I had gone to Roedean or similar. Had I wanted to be a beautician I would have expected my parents to support me.

sorry -career

Do private schools actually take in any students with SEN? I'm inclined to doubt it, think what it would do to their figures! I have taught a boy removed from his private school and sent to my comp once some SEN were diagnosed, as they wouldn't/couldn't cater for his needs.

Interesting to read your comment about children with SEN chandon

I work in early years with children with SN and my DS has SN. We had a rotten time at our local mainstream state school and I moved him out after two years to a state special school. The MS school was very well funded and had excellent Ofted reports.

But with my exeperience at work I would be very wary of sending a child with SN to a private school tbh. We have had a lot of difficulties getting them to support children with SN. It seems that they dont have the same responsibilities as state schools (I am happy to have this clarified) so if they dont want to provide 1:1 etc they dont have to.

The smaller class sizes make a lot of difference to children with SN but I have found the PS so far to be very driven academically and quite reluctant to take on children with LDs particularly.

I used to wish I had the money to get DS out of the state system, I didnt worry about the others because they are v. clever (i would say that wouldnt I ) but after my experience with several local private and independant schools I wouldnt move him.

I would be very interested to hear of others' experiences though and how their children have been well supported.