to consider private school even if...

[stella1w]

... it means no holidays, treats, nice clothes etc etc ever for the next 18 years?

My parents scrimped and saved to put me and my sister through private school even though they had a very low income.

I also have a low income but feel I should make all sacrifices necessary.. on the other hand, I don't think putting myself under severe financial stress during the recession would make me such a good parent either.

Feeling guilty either way..

Bright spot is local infant school just got "outstanding" ofsted report, though the juniors was only "satisfactory"

why would it...

I don't think it would! But obviously even for the miniscule proportion of a child's life that is spent in school () you wouldn't be happy for that to be a state school. Well, not your child, anyway.

Sorry then word, I got the impression that you were fiendishly competitive for your DC, but I think I'm tending to tar all North London MNers with that particular brush!

I do think the idea that you home educate is daft though, tbf, given the sort of schooling that your DC are lucky to get.

If the school I chose for primary had bene state...well that would have been that. I didn't set out to find a private school. Quite the opposite actually.

As I say, all I wanted was for their education to move seamlessly from home to school and back again. That it would all form part of the same scheme.
I found a school that would do that perfectly. It was private...

The local primary school would not have done that. I volunteered there for quite a few years. It has too many problems There are other primaries that I'm sure could have worked beautifully as part of my DC's education but they are a good twenty minutes drive away, more in traffic...I didn't think that was the right thing to do.

Once secondary called my DC obviously had far more input. Their education is, quite rightly, becoming more and more their own responsibility.
They saw quite a few. DD even sat an exam for our nearest grammar (next county). But ultimately they both chose independent schools. Though as I say, they have chosen very different types of school. But then they are very different. I think they did a good job at choosing the school which will best support their own individual educations.

Is it not you who I have seen comment that the local school would have been fine but once you'd been round the lovely prep it just kept calling you and calling you and you wouldn't have been able to settle for anything less else?

Apols if not!

yellow I think I'm very honest with my DC that the world in which they want to ultimately want to live is fiedishly competitive. To engage in it they will need certain pieces of paper. Much as one needs to pass ones test to drive.

Telling them otherwise would be unfair IMHO.

As part of a good lifelong education that will enrich their lives and make them happier and keep them interested, such pieces of paper are a 'good thing'. But they are not as far as I'm concerned an education. Just a very small part.

mal no what I have said, is that I had always assumed I would send my DC to a state school. Nver gave independent school a second thought.

Actuallly school and everything that goes with it, was low low on my list of things I gave much consideration to. Education seemed to be going so well.

Then someone recommended I look at x school. I thought there was no chance I'd be interested but it blew me away. I knew absolutely without a shadow of a doubt that it would continue with what I was already teaching my DC. I knew it would fit seamlessly.

I still had huge doubts though. Because of the independent thing.

My local school (actually a bit further away than the prep) has many problems irrespective of my own views on my own DC's education.

Oh yeah, it was you then. Thought so.

No I hav enever ever said the local school would be fine for my DC (they were never ever registered to attend) or any other DC.

I've made it very plian that it is not fine, far far from fine. The school accept it's not fine, which is why I ended up volunteering there.

Which in turn is why I ended up as a gov at the other school. Specifically asked on both occassions.
And this secondary school is not fine either. That is why I get so angry. Those DC deserve much much better. Platitudes about the state system isn't going to help them.

But word if the school is physically a shambles and some of the staff are dire but aren't being kicked out of post and if even the innately clever kids are failing to scrape a minimum of GCSE's, why don't you go and haul a big name preferably privately educated politician into town and explain in unjoined up letters what needs to be done and what can be done and don't let him get away with a wringing of hands.

Getting angry doesn't help and moral outrage doesn't help unless they're translated into practical measures which trigger the process of change.

Sounds easy I know. But presumably you accepted the post of governor at this particular school to help bring about change.

'And if my choice of words annoys you, well sorry and all that. I suspect I'd annoy you in person too. People with different life experiences and opinions tend to do that eh?'

I think if this is really true for you, word, then that would explain why the comprehensive experience is not valuable to you. People with different life experiences and opinions will enrich my child's learning experience, and teach them not to dismiss other's points of view out af hand.

I think that although there are many poor comps, the fact that good ones exist proves that the concept is not flawed. It is perfectly possible to have excellent state education.

yellow my DH always says that my problem is I approach my voluntary work as I do my working life...in that, like you, I expect it to be hard, but I expect to be able to make a discernable difference. I expect to effect change.

I accepted the role as gov because apparently I was 'doing such a great job' in my role as a volunteer at the local primary school. Oh how we laughed. As far as I can see nothing changed whatsoever in the yeras I was there. The head is still there killing time. The teachers are still knackered and the parents are still utterly disengaged.

The sad fact is that I just couldn't do anything about those things and everything I did try was tinkering at the edges or so it seemed.

In my role as gov I don't know what can be achieved. There is so much political crap going on in the area, the racial tensions are freakishly high. Two teachers have already said they will resign on the spot if any of the pupils celebrate tomorrow. One of the governors has suggested closing the school...

stella1w going through the same dilemma myself, except the state primary that I like would mean moving house so trying to work out whether to do that, whether to go private and whether to just go for the local school which has several worrying features.If I was in your situation I would be going for the brilliant local state infant at least.I went to local infant/junior school until 10,then 1year private junior , then private secondary.I can honestly say that the state junior was better than the private junior(although all the girls at the private one were lovely and the class was smaller).But academically just not as good.It was the fab state school where I was taught maths,spelling etc.Save the money for holidays and go for the state infant, at least

"They are not waiting for slower pupils! Why would they? They set for subjects-according to ability."

At my own comprehensive school a significant number of subjects were taught in mixed-ability groups. Fine for those at the middle level but not great for those who could have achieved far more, or who were completely lost.

"It is a crude exam that separates the top from the bottom-at some point it draws a line between two DC with equal ability."

So why not make a more sophisticated system with three overlapping tiers of school, more flexibility and better, modern-day tests of determining ability and potential?

what form would the modern-day tests take?

Malcontent

While I was in the Netherlands (sorry to go on about it!) at the end of primary (which ends at 12 rather than 11) the children take CITOs. They take them over the last two years of primary which I think gives a fairer representation and there was no 'coaching' for these tests. We were not aware of there being a lot of pressure in the school.

The purpose of the CITO test is to recommend the type of secondary education (three types: vocational preparation, professional preparation, academic preparation) which will best suit the child. If a parent disagrees with the result then there is an opportunity for the child to 'suck it and see' at a more academic school.

One of the features I observed of the Dutch system was its fluidity compared to the English system. It was common for children to be held back a year especially in the early years. This was especially good for September babies (equivalent of August babies in Britain) whose physical development lagged behind their perrs. Where this happened the children thrived, there was no stigma attached, the Dutch are very pragmatic!

From experience, if you were looking for a model then I would highly recommend the Dutch approach.

I don't claim to be able to say, but I believe experts in psychology, education etc. could certainly come up with a far more suitable test than the 11-plus these days. But it's just not on the political to-do list at the moment...

"what form would the modern-day tests take?"

Gnome, again I agree with you, and the Belgian system is similar. One of dd's maternelle friends is resitting 2nd year. She was really struggling with maths, and whilst she scraped a pass at the 2nd year exam, parents and school agreed that it was really a problem for her and it would be better to do the 2nd year again than really struggle in the 3rd. No stigma and due to the fact they mix maternelle/1ere and 1ere/2eme classes for certain subjects the children all know each other. Dd was very happy to see her as she has been a friend since they were 3. Other child is happy as she knows other children in the class and won't have to struggle so much.

GnomeDePlume from what you describe, the Dutch approach sounds very interesting and successful.

And again in Belgium there are options for a more vocational track vs an academic track (which normally includes Greek and Latin!) and classes for those 12 year olds that did not pass their primary leaving exam.

Portofino I think that both these countries are taking a much more child focussed approach rather than being so focussed on the child achieving X, Y or Z by a particular and possibly arbitrary age.

My DS was held back and it worked for him. I remember one girl in DD1's year group held back to do year 3 again and it was so right for her. Second time around she looked right for her new year group.

Cereal I think that the Dutch system has the three overlapping tiers you are looking for. You arent Mr Gove by any chance are you? If so can I make a few suggestions please!

Gnome, they don't seem to publish results either. I am not sure if this a good or bad thing really. You are right that there is no real stigma in being held back - it happens to lots of children, and the pragmatic view is that it is a positive thing. But then, even in my UK Grammar School I knew a couiple of girls who resat a year.

I am positively GLAD that my dd doesn't have to go through a system having to get 12A GCEs and 5 A A'levels to get a HE place. Education til 18 is compulsory here, most are expected to study further and HE courses are easily accessible and relatively cheap - 150 euros tuition fees etc and most dcs stay at home and access their local university.

Portofino - when I suggested the possibility of holding children back who were struggling essentially because they were too young for their year the head said that it simply wasnt possible in the UK now. The SATs are age based so holding back would confuse the system too much (heavens would fall, there would be plagues of frogs and locusts, pehaps even a stiffly worded memo from county hall).

Interesting what you say about HE. DD1 wants to return to the Netherlands to go to university so we have been looking at the system there. It seems to require a lot more dedication from students with regular testing. No staying in bed for six months with a mad panic just before the end.

The English education system is now far from ideal and we delude ourselves if we think we have the best system.

SATS are bollocks! It is sad day when the school "statistics" take precedence over what goes on class. Well like now I guess. I've been on Friends Reunited. Interesting to see that even those who were on the "bottom table" seem to have made a good life for themselves. They didn't all become ASBO types. Well none did that I am aware of.

And dd's friend who was kept back has a December birthday, so equivilent to August birthday in UK. She is barely 2.5 months older than dd. I chatted to her mother this morning. She is a bit upset about it, but knows it to be the best thing for her dd.