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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to consider private school even if...

336 replies

stella1w · 02/09/2011 20:59

... it means no holidays, treats, nice clothes etc etc ever for the next 18 years?

My parents scrimped and saved to put me and my sister through private school even though they had a very low income.

I also have a low income but feel I should make all sacrifices necessary.. on the other hand, I don't think putting myself under severe financial stress during the recession would make me such a good parent either.

Feeling guilty either way..

Bright spot is local infant school just got "outstanding" ofsted report, though the juniors was only "satisfactory"

OP posts:
MigratingCoconuts · 04/09/2011 16:45

well said Iggy

Xenia · 04/09/2011 16:45
  1. In most cases children at private schools speak better.
  1. The private/state issue differs hugely around the country. Most of the country has no state grammars. In some places there are only useless private schools and no good ones. Here in outer London you get local comps with 34% A -C GCSE and some private schools with 96% A* - A at GCSE. It's much more polarised.
  1. If you earn a lot as a woman you are able to give your children a better choice of school. If you don't earn much you may be lumbered with the only local school and unable to move because you cannot afford to do so.
  1. Accent is perhaps a topic for another thread but yes I agree you can have correct grammar and an accent. My mother taught classes of 40+ children ni the 1940s and 50s correct grammar from very poor homes and I imagine they had very strong NE accents. However you can get further in terms of all kinds of things from attracting a man you might want to working your way up on to the board if you have received pronunciation. There have been lots of studies on accent and class and career and dating success. However just as you can succeed at work with no hair and flat shoes and no make up if you're good enough never mind no legs so can you if you "don't talk proper". It is just it can be a little harder. A lot of interviewers will ask to speak to you on the telephone first (a) to find out if you're clever (b) if you are verbally coherent and (c) what your accent is and indeed will look these days for clips of you speaking on youtube etc to assess the same things. Some, however wrong it might be, may judge you in an interview within about 3 minutes on the basis of appearance and clothes. Sathnam Sanghera who writes good columns in the Times said the British tend to judge on form as much as substance which is quite true.
OriginalPoster · 04/09/2011 16:46

By excellent, I mean that every child is enabled to achieve their full potential, which may range from all A*, to writing their name, or learning useful life skills.

Would it also be a fantasy to say the same thing about hospitals?

MigratingCoconuts · 04/09/2011 16:52

funnily enough I have heard very similar arguments about NHS vs private health care...especially from Americans using out beloved NHS as an argument against free health care for all..

(however NHS arguments don't use accents as a basis of judging quality)

OriginalPoster · 04/09/2011 16:59

I think if a family talk well at home, the children are likely to follow suit, whether they are educated privately or not. When I was at school there were many children who talked in a broad dialect, which I understand perfectly, but I did not talk like that as at home we talked in a more standard English. I am glad I had the chance to hear the dialect, as I can now understand what people are saying when they are talking to me, when my dh can't follow as he was brought up elsewhere.

Malcontentinthemiddle · 04/09/2011 17:01

What about children who go to private school and start affecting the ARI drawl?

exoticfruits · 04/09/2011 17:20

I am near a very good private school and the boys that I have passed in the street have language from the gutter you would need a lot of ***! I have no doubt they speak correctly in the right places, but they are not a good advert for the school when you are just passing by to get to the post box!

ZZZenAgain · 04/09/2011 17:28

did stella ever return to the thread?

Iggi999 · 04/09/2011 17:31

I am rofl about the idea of RP helping me get the man I wanted!
Do you really think that applies anywhere outside of London? Do Liverpudlian men secretly long for a woman with a posh accent? Do Scottish men? I doubt it!

Xenia · 04/09/2011 18:08

It's hard to tell. Men do say they like my voice but people say anything when they want to get inside your knickers. Lots of people pick a partner and an employee on the basis of accent as well as of course the other things too. It's why "well spoken" is written so often or "public school " on dating ads or why some people might just look for someone at a particular type of event where people like them might be. Ignore the dating side of it and think about jobs though as that's what our children are up against.

Yellowstone · 04/09/2011 18:16

Iggi many years ago I went out with a barrister now nestling up towards the top of the top set of commercial chambers and earning a fortune.

To my horror, about nine months into the relationship, he said he coudn't find a person attractive unless they had a pretty voice, by which he meant posh. He was super-bright and fabulous looking and also a Blue but he himself wasn't posh.

I finished with him on the basis of that comment (much to my regret, with the wisdom of hindsight).

He stuck to his guns though; his wife is mega-posh.

marriedinwhite · 04/09/2011 19:12

Crikey Yellowstone, he didn't look like Hugh Dennis did he? Wink.

OriginalPoster · 04/09/2011 19:22

Xenia

I'd love to hear your accent. I'm imagining Dame Maggie Smith playing the Dowager Countess in Downtown Abbey?

marriedinwhite · 04/09/2011 19:46

Read a bit more of this now. Funny thing is I have the cut glass accent but no degree yet in the 1980's/early 90's earnt six figures in the City - alongside the Essex boys and girls with whom I could have a great giggle and felt consummately at ease. DH, with his lower middle class comprehensive education would never have have coped with that environment - yet he took a 1st and is exceptionally successful in a very cerebral yet commercial way. A wise old chap in the City told me all those years ago, "the cockneys and spoons rub along very well - neither of them give a - it's the one's in the middle who struggle here - the ones who think they are special - the spoons can tell they're wannabees and take the piss and the barrow boys think they're top hats and take the piss.

Yellowstone · 04/09/2011 22:25

A bit married, yes Grin

Xenia · 05/09/2011 08:59

I think I feel at east with everyone. I have a very chameleon like inherent way of speaking. I even noticed in Jamaica and Nigeria in July in just a few days how I spoke was changing and it changes depending on who I'm with a bit too. Others will move to America and have an English accent for life. As married says it's best of you're relaxed and content with how you are. However a lot of people do judge you on how you speak in interviews etc so I think it's a good thing if you can speak well. I don't think it really holds anyone back if they do rather than vice versa.

Although I would emphasise as I have said a good few times on the thread that it is much more important things than accent you might get out of a private school.

As for my own accent if anyone knows who I am they can look up videos and hear me speak,. In fact I'm doing some recordings all morning of something and need to get ready.

ilikethesun · 05/09/2011 09:11

I will look up the videos now.

ilikethesun · 05/09/2011 09:19

I don't think you really have an accent that puts you coming from any particular area.

chandellina · 05/09/2011 10:06

doesn't level of educational attainment and job status mainly have to do with the parents' own?

My husband and I were both state educated, went to good universities and I have a masters from an Ivy League university. combined income is in top 1-2% of the country - should I really fret my children will underachieve if they too go to state school?

Our local is deemed outstanding - it's why we moved there - and I'd rather see how we get on and consider private later if a real need emerges.

areyoutheregoditsmemargaret · 05/09/2011 10:21

Always try the local state option first. If at any stage you don't like it, switch to private and in the meantime save, save, save.
We could afford private but send dcs to state because it is close and we like the community feel. I can see that it's not working for dd1 (though she loves it) because she has various issues the school can't address in its budget but for dd2 who is in a much bigger class it is fantastic in every respect. NOT an outstanding school or the sort that people move to be in the catchment for either.

Iggi999 · 05/09/2011 11:38

Being well-spoken is not the same as not having an accent though, is it?

MollieO · 05/09/2011 22:47

I'm not sure that private school necessarily provides an accent that you'd welcome. Ds is 7 and is at private school and has spent the summer at holiday club at his private school mixing with his private school friends. Over the summer he has decided that it is cool to drop his 't's so butter becomes bu'err. Sounds utterly charming, not.

Xenia · 06/09/2011 16:48

ilke, that's probably right. Anyway I wasn't suggesting accent was the principal thing parents buy in private schools. It 's a range of things and it will vary from parent to parent.

OriginalPoster · 06/09/2011 17:24

Xenia

You sound confident that you could tell a privately educated child from a state educated one. According to your theory they are generally more rounded, confident and are more well spoken, better at music, sporty, and more presentable in appearance. If you could interview 20 sixteen year olds with the same GCSEs 10 state and 10 private, how accurate do you think you'd be? Assuming you can't ask them which school they are at...

If I tried that I think I'd get it right maybe 70% of the time. I think there would be a lot of exceptions to your rule. I still think a child from a supportive background has a very good chance at turning out well at a good state school.

shopaholicJen · 06/09/2011 17:34

I am currently attending my last year at a private school. I am from a lower income family and I believe that despite not going on fancy holidays and not spending lots of money on clothes (Primark all the way!), it has been the best option for me (and my older brother). The main benefit of a private school is the smaller classes which gives you more of an opportunity to be heard and to be helped. I don't believe that going to a private school makes you a 'better' person, and I am certainly not better at music or sport!! There are no good state schools in my area though, which made private school a far more attractive option. I would probably want to send my child to private school, but obviously the education system may have changed by then!

I don't normally like to get involved with the private/state debate (haha, I'm a poet etc) as I feel I have not had experience of both, but this relates particularly to my situation.