Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

To wish DH and DM hadn't argued on DD2's 4th Birthday?

123 replies

PurpleLostPrincess · 02/09/2011 19:20

DD2 is fine and totally oblivious to it, so I guess there's no harm done, but there was an atmosphere and frankly I'm furious with the pair of them and I've told them that!!!

DH often goes around the house with no top on if it's hot. He has a beer belly (t-total now, this was from years ago and he doesn't eat very healthily these days), and my Mum has made it clear on a few occassions that she finds it disrespectful and gross and has asked him to put his top on when they come round to visit. Last time they visited, they had my Great Aunt and Uncle with them from Canada and he was just about to go up for a shower. My mum wouldn't talk to him until he had showered and put a top on, she was embarrassed and 'revolted' that he would disrespect her. We had a bit of a discussion about it a few days later, he apologised but made the point that he should be allowed to dress any way he likes in his own house. He said he wouldn't do it again...

Fast forward to today. It's DD2's 4th birthday. She got a wendy house that we had been constructing all day in the heat - DH had his top off because he was boiling hot, sweaty etc. I knew it would be an issue so knowing my parents would be coming around 3.30, I asked him if he could please put a top on when they arrived. He refused and said no, it's hot and it's his house - if Mum doesn't like it tough!

Mum arrived, saw him in the garden then decided to sit inside as she doesn't want to be around him when he's not fully dressed.

We were just about to light the candles on the cake, gathered all the visitors into the lounge. DH asked if he should come in - I said if he put a top on, yes! He refused again... I lit the candles in the kitchen, unbeknown to me, DH slipped into the lounge and hid in the corner. Having been told this, Mum refused to come into the lounge as she didn't want to be near him.

So, she missed the blowing out of the candles! DH came out to the kitchen, belly on show, and asked Mum why she hadn't come into the lounge. She spoke to him like a 5 year old and with venom she told him "we've talked about this, you know how much it upsets me when you don't put a top on!". DH responded that he keeps to her rules when he is in her house and it should work both ways, then went back in the garden to continue building the wendyhouse. Mum burst into tears. I was making tea and told her that they have both over-reacted and that normally I could see her point, but he's working and it's hot today... She stormed out crying and went home. My Dad stayed a little while longer but didn't talk to DH or say goodbye to him. I mentioned to my Dad that I'm stuck in the middle as I can see both sides, they have both over-reacted - he just said 'welcome to my world'!

I'm fuming at both of them - Mum has been texting me, DH and I have had a row. Mum reckons that he never makes any effort for her, this isn't true as she only has to click her fingers to have a job done and he will do it. At the same time, DH has a point too.

I know she has issues with his MH problems, she always has done, but I feel this is over the top. She refuses to make allowances for his issues (he's agoraphobic and so struggles to do things like go out for family meals), but expects him to bow to her every whim.

Having said that, she is a different generation and truly takes offence to a man not wearing a top...

They have both apologised to me but insist that they don't want anything more to do with each other. How can they not see that puts me in the middle!?

I'm going around in circles!!! I'm going to make a cat with DD2 as she got a mister maker set as one of her pressies, as long as she has a good day, that's all that matters I guess.

OP posts:

ensure · 03/09/2011 00:11

I am leaning away from the general consensus and think your DH should have put the t shirt on. It is disrespectful to go around topless when you have guests, I feel.

pixielicious · 03/09/2011 00:11

What I mean, willgotobed, is that he had been working on the wendyhouse for his daughter's birthday, so was all sweaty, and was then going to continue working on it after the cake. So I get why you wouldn't want to bother putting on a top for 5 minutes, only to make it all gross and then take it off again. I mean, the guests were FAMILY for goodness' sake, not a whole load of people they don't know very well. It's a 4 year old's birthday party: hardly the height of sophistication. And the main issue is more that the OP's mum keeps going on about it, when she has no right to. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to keep going to their house, but it was unfair to make such a huge fuss and potentially ruin the DD's birthday, when the OP's DH had a perfectly good reason for being topless (i.e. building the DD's present!).

willugotobed · 03/09/2011 00:13

Yes but it's not criticising what he puts on - it's saying please put something, anything on so that you're not naked.

willugotobed · 03/09/2011 00:18

Sorry I don't get it. My DH has built many things in the heat, done gardening, climbed rooves. He has never seen the need to take his top off to do that. Neither have I. Should I take my top off because I've been a bit hot making the beds before guests arrive? I don't get it. I get that some people feel more comfortable working without a top. But come on - for photos at your dc's birthday party? Surely you could put it on for 10 minutes to greet the guests. How would he have felt if MIL had turned up without a top because she felt hot?

pixielicious · 03/09/2011 00:21

But he's not naked... just topless. The OP never said anything about not wearing trousers!! And he's building a wendyhouse, in the confines of his own home, on a hot day. The only people present are members of his family. Therefore the mum is overreacting and has no reason to be offended. She'll give the poor guy a complex!! It's the fact that she's making a big deal out of it when it's a) not very important in the grand scheme of things and b) that she is doing so in a context where she has no "right" to (for want of a better word). It is his home. She does not HAVE to go. If he was doing it at her house and she disapproved, that would be another matter entirely...

penguin73 · 03/09/2011 00:21

I'm with ensure too - if I had guests I would expect DH to have a top on whether they were family or not and DH would agree. More importantly your DH knew that this would be an issue and would upset your guests and spoil the day but decided that it didn't matter if he offended your guests - that is very rude.

RumourOfAHurricane · 03/09/2011 00:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

FabbyChic · 03/09/2011 00:24

Seriously there is nothing worse than seeing a man who has a fat belly with no top on. I know it is where he lives but he really should have some common sense, whilst he might not be unhappy with how he looks, it is really gross for someone else to have to look at fat.

My son is fit the both are but if we had company they would wear tops even if it was hot. If I had a partner I'd make sure that if there was company he had a top on even in a heatwave it is disrespectful. Only time no top on if sunbathing on holiday.

MinimallyNarkyPuffin · 03/09/2011 00:34

I don't think that there's an issue with him having no shirt on in his own home. The idea that is somehow offensive is odd. The showering is a completely different issue. Because of his mental health issues he should be showering daily. It might be the last thing he wants to do but it is really important, much more so for him than for someone who doesn't have his problems. Is he actually getting any help for his problems?

MinimallyNarkyPuffin · 03/09/2011 00:37

From the special boil thread (see classics) I think they're caused by bacteria that lives on the skin getting in to any tiny cut or break in the skin. Regular washing will help keep the numbers of bateria down.

pixielicious · 03/09/2011 00:37

The fact is, is that to some people, being able to go topless in your own home is entirely reasonable, whether or not others would choose to do the same. It is not for those others to dictate how these people should behave. EVEN if I, to play devil's advocate, accept that the DH was being rude, the fact remains that it was a little girl's birthday (who I'm sure couldn't give two hoots about how her daddy is dressed), and the mother CHOSE to make a huge deal out of it by missing the cake and storming out crying. That is utterly unreasonable behaviour, and in my eyes far worse that what the OP's DH did. She should have just accepted that she couldn't change it, smile, and let the DD enjoy her party. That wasn't the time to make a song and dance about it, as a four year old isn't going to care about or understand that level of social etiquette (especially given that we, as adults, can't even seem to agree on what we think is appropriate). The day was about the DD, not some petty feud between DH an mother. Granted, the DH may have known it would upset her, but as they are in HIS house and he is contributing by building the present, then HE is the one who gets to choose on that occasion, and the mother should have backed down. Next time, if they are at the mother's house, no matter how hot it is, obviously the DH should dress appropriately and it will be her turn to get her way.

MinimallyNarkyPuffin · 03/09/2011 00:39

Your mother was seriously OTT and melodramatic about it.

penguin73 · 03/09/2011 00:40

Regardless of the dress issue is it ok to invite someone into your home then deliberately do something that you know they will find very upsetting and offensive and that is easily avoidable? Personally I think not but I guess people have different standards.

MinimallyNarkyPuffin · 03/09/2011 00:49

It will sound daft but has he got a shower gel that also works as shampoo? Anything that makes showering feel like less work. Also, can he have the radio on/music playing in the bathroom? Anything that helps him to get through showering. It doesn't magically make things better but not showering regularly makes things worse IYSWIM. A decent therapist to work on reducing his anxiety would probably help too - he might not recognize that he's feeling anxious but you only realise how tense you were onceyou have started to relax. Agoraphobia tends to be all about anxiety.

pixielicious · 03/09/2011 00:56

Penguin, under these circumstances I think yes. The reason for this is that the social etiquette involved here is obviously somewhat of a grey area, made clear by the fact that people's opinions are so divided on this thread. Therefore, when an issue is not black and white, it is up to the person whose home it is to decide what is appropriate. His house, his rules. In his eyes, and in the eyes of many others (so he's not alone in thinking so), he is in the right, so refuses to let himself be dictated to. He has explained to the mother in the past that he will not allow her to tell him how to conduct himself in his own home. She is fully aware of this, and so realising it was a hot day, had 3 choices. 1) Not go to the party at all, in case she got offended, but miss her Granddaughter's birthday. 2) Go to the party and suck it up, and act like the grown and mature woman she is supposed to be. 3) Do what she did, i.e. expect him to accomodate her, when he has already told her he will not be, be disappointed and then throw a tantrum and nearly ruin the party. I personally think that choice 2 is the right one, and if she really prizes modesty over her granddaughter, then she should have gone for 1. But 3 is purely selfish and ridiculous.

penguin73 · 03/09/2011 00:59

As I said, different standards...

pixielicious · 03/09/2011 01:02

Yes, but don't you agree that the mother, KNOWING they have different standards, could have perhaps put aside the issue in order for the granddaughter to have a nice birthday?

penguin73 · 03/09/2011 01:07

Don't you think that the host could have put aside the issue so that his daughter, wife and parents-in-law could have enjoyed the day? Easier for him to put on a piece of clothing than for her to try to overcome a deep-seated and long held belief about what is decent I would suggest.

pixielicious · 03/09/2011 01:11

But it's not about the clothing. It's about refusing to have your behaviour dictated in your home. We live in different times, it's not his fault the mother doesn't seem to be moving with them. I personally think that greater acceptance of all shapes and sizes and less prudishness are a good thing, in general.

DioneTheDiabolist · 03/09/2011 01:14

Your DH is being rude and offensive. You know it. You asked him to put on a top. He didn't. It is not rude to expect your host (or your friend's dad.....ewwww) to wear clothes when you are attending a party at their house.

penguin73 · 03/09/2011 01:16

It's all about manners and respect for your guests imo. I would never do something to upset a guest that I had invited into my home if I could avoid it, regardless of whether I happened to share their beliefs. I think that is common courtesy but as I said, different standards.

pixielicious · 03/09/2011 01:25

I would normally agree with you penguin, but as she is not respecting his position in his own household, she does not deserve to be pandered to IMO. She cannot order or force him to do anything, only suggest. She's said she doesn't like it, he has said he won't change, so regardless, she is going to have to just accept it and grow a thicker skin if she wants to spend lots of time there with her grandchildren.

Againagainagain · 03/09/2011 01:27

It may be he's digging his heals in because of his mh problems, from what you have said he is having a hard time at the moment, if he was well you would probably find he would have put his top on for your dm, even though I don't think he should have to in his own house.

When people are suffering from mh problems it can in some cases cause all sorts of irrational behaviour, it can change the way you think, how you view things you say he has OCD this may also be contributing to his unwillingness to put on a top/ do as your mother wants, who knows

I don't think there was any need for your mum to act the way she did though

Againagainagain · 03/09/2011 01:44

There is also a big problem with those suffering mh problems self medicating, alot of young adults are treated for duel diagnosis which is mental health problems and the misuse of drugs or alcohol

I've seen patients with OCD self medicate with cocaine, bio polar sufferers that take cannabis and people suffering depression taking strong pain killers. In the short term it takes the edge off how their mental illness is making them feel, long term it causes other problems and their symptoms manifest in other ways, it is very difficult to reason with someone who is unwell when self medication makes them feel 'normal' even if it is short term

empirestateofmind · 03/09/2011 02:32

I presume this man has some redeeming qualities. He sounds absolutely gross. He repays your parents hospitality and generosity by refusing to put a shirt on, even when he knows your DM doesn't like to see shirt-less men. Putting a t-shirt on is such a small thing but he wouldn't do it for you when you asked.

I would be furious.

You have got a hard paper round there OP .

Flip

1 2 3 4 5