To wish DH and DM hadn't argued on DD2's 4th Birthday?

[PurpleLostPrincess]

DD2 is fine and totally oblivious to it, so I guess there's no harm done, but there was an atmosphere and frankly I'm furious with the pair of them and I've told them that!!!

DH often goes around the house with no top on if it's hot. He has a beer belly (t-total now, this was from years ago and he doesn't eat very healthily these days), and my Mum has made it clear on a few occassions that she finds it disrespectful and gross and has asked him to put his top on when they come round to visit. Last time they visited, they had my Great Aunt and Uncle with them from Canada and he was just about to go up for a shower. My mum wouldn't talk to him until he had showered and put a top on, she was embarrassed and 'revolted' that he would disrespect her. We had a bit of a discussion about it a few days later, he apologised but made the point that he should be allowed to dress any way he likes in his own house. He said he wouldn't do it again...

Fast forward to today. It's DD2's 4th birthday. She got a wendy house that we had been constructing all day in the heat - DH had his top off because he was boiling hot, sweaty etc. I knew it would be an issue so knowing my parents would be coming around 3.30, I asked him if he could please put a top on when they arrived. He refused and said no, it's hot and it's his house - if Mum doesn't like it tough!

Mum arrived, saw him in the garden then decided to sit inside as she doesn't want to be around him when he's not fully dressed.

We were just about to light the candles on the cake, gathered all the visitors into the lounge. DH asked if he should come in - I said if he put a top on, yes! He refused again... I lit the candles in the kitchen, unbeknown to me, DH slipped into the lounge and hid in the corner. Having been told this, Mum refused to come into the lounge as she didn't want to be near him.

So, she missed the blowing out of the candles! DH came out to the kitchen, belly on show, and asked Mum why she hadn't come into the lounge. She spoke to him like a 5 year old and with venom she told him "we've talked about this, you know how much it upsets me when you don't put a top on!". DH responded that he keeps to her rules when he is in her house and it should work both ways, then went back in the garden to continue building the wendyhouse. Mum burst into tears. I was making tea and told her that they have both over-reacted and that normally I could see her point, but he's working and it's hot today... She stormed out crying and went home. My Dad stayed a little while longer but didn't talk to DH or say goodbye to him. I mentioned to my Dad that I'm stuck in the middle as I can see both sides, they have both over-reacted - he just said 'welcome to my world'!

I'm fuming at both of them - Mum has been texting me, DH and I have had a row. Mum reckons that he never makes any effort for her, this isn't true as she only has to click her fingers to have a job done and he will do it. At the same time, DH has a point too.

I know she has issues with his MH problems, she always has done, but I feel this is over the top. She refuses to make allowances for his issues (he's agoraphobic and so struggles to do things like go out for family meals), but expects him to bow to her every whim.

Having said that, she is a different generation and truly takes offence to a man not wearing a top...

They have both apologised to me but insist that they don't want anything more to do with each other. How can they not see that puts me in the middle!?

I'm going around in circles!!! I'm going to make a cat with DD2 as she got a mister maker set as one of her pressies, as long as she has a good day, that's all that matters I guess.

You say your DD is fine, OP, but if she was witness to that then you should be very angry - with your mother. She has no right to disrespect your husband like that. How would you feel were your MIL to do this to you?

What happens when your DCs don't meet her 'exacting standards' in your family home... will you say something then?

I realise it's awkward for you, it's your mum and it's hard to say something but you must - and so must your DH. Your mother has no right to behave this way and it needs to be nipped in the bud now.

Your mother is being unreasonable.

How does your Mum cope when she goes to the beach/swimming etc?

You should be on your DHs side and tell your Mum she is BU.

It is his home after all.

I think they are both being U.
I Don't like men with no tops on, even in own home...can't he wear a light cotton top which would be cool?
Equally your mum is being a bit overdramatic.
I am sorry dh has mh issues.......it must be very hard for you.

I think your mum was being unreasonable, your dh should be able to be shirtless in his own home.

She is being an ott drama queen.

He is being deliberately obstinate , apparently in a bid to provoke her or 'win' the argument.

Nobody should be controlling what others wear, but it is considerate to be clean and dressed for visitors, and be willing to adapt normal routines a bit- I might fart in the front room when it's just us, but I wouldn't if we had guests. Nor would I shower with the bathroom door open , or reposition my bra in public (God I sound like a right catch!)

I think your husband is being unreasonable - you have guests round for a party and he walks around shirtless and stinky??? Yuck.

LWITW, thankfully she didn't witness it, she was enjoying herself in the lounge. She seems to be oblivious to this sort of thing - had this been DD1 or DS at this age, they would have noticed that Grandma hadn't said goodbye or that there had been shouting, but DD2 doesn't seem to pick up on it just yet. I'm sure she will in time though...

Because she doesn't mention it, doesn't mean she doesn't know it's going on

PurpleLostPrincess... Sorry, but she's 2, she's not stupid. She didn't witness that incident but she will have witnessed others presumably. Did she see her father sneaking into the lounge? I think you'd like to believe that she's oblivious, I would too, I hope you're right but I wouldn't feel confident that this is so. My niece was thought to be 'oblivious' to her parents sniping at each other; what she was doing though was 'tuning out'. Not good at all.

I completely understand that it's not nice to have a stinky partner and that he should make an effort to be dressed when there are visitors to your home, but that's not your mother's call.

She's 4 LWITW

Your Mum is being very unreasonable, and really quite mean and controlling. You should back your husband. He had the right to see his dd with her b'day cake, and if your Mum didn't like it, tough.

I can toatally see where your dh is coming from, and I think you need to make it clear to your Mum that your loyalities lie with him, not her. That is the least you should do when he's in his own home!

And you say you have to work for her in a way to pay back or thank her for the support you have been given by your parents, but ask yourself, if your dd needs support in the future, will you expect pay back for it, or will you just do it because that's what parents do?

Your poor dh, just lost his own Mum, gets treated like crap by his MIL, and then doesn't even get the full support of his wife because he has to row with her over it!

I think your mum is seriously over-reacting.

It is his house, a hot day and he was outside building a wendy-house I would expect my DH to have his top off under those conditions.

He should not have to sneak around to be there on his DD's birthday in his own house.

Your mum is not a complete stranger and is in his house so really just needs to get used to it.

I understand also that she may wish that he do more at the moment to help you, but losing your mum is a hard thing. DH lost his mum a month ago and struggles to start the day as every time he wakes up he remembers that she is gone and it takes a while to get his head round it all over again.

He does however still wash regularly and you do need to talk to your DH about that as intimacy (I mean cuddles etc...) with you will help him get over losing his mum.

He had to sneak into the house to watch his daughter blow out her candles because your mum doesn't agree with him having no top on in his own house! She is being very unreasonable if she doesn't like it them that's her problem. 6 pack or beer belly he's entitled to stroll around his own house topless if he wants! I'd be furious with her if I was him!

I think your mum was the unreasonable one here. It's incredibly sad that he had to creep indoors to watch his own daughter blow her candles out so as not to upset your mother. I think he is completely right with the point that he accepts her rules in her house and she should do the same in your/his house.

That said, in an equivalent situation and seeing how much of a state your mum was working herself into, in your husband's shoes I might have gone and put on something less revealing but I can see why he didn't particularly as he was in the middle of doing manual work which he was returning to.

LWITW I should have added that she was premature and has SN, but I do see your point. I divorced xh when DS and DD1 were 3 and 7, and yes they did pick up on stuff doing on around them, of course they did. But I was just saying to my friend yesterday that DD2 seems to be a bit 'behind' with this sort of thing. I'm sure she'll get there, but so far she shows no signs of it.

Some very frank responses here and I appreciate them. I must make it clear that I haven't 'taken sides' with either of them, I've got enough on my plate to be honest!

As I said, I think they both behaved badly, but having read through, the majority of your opinions are that I should be more supportive of DH. At first that was hard to hear but I can see your points and I think I needed to be told that. It's healthy to discuss these things and I'm not one to get my back up if I'm told I'm being unreasonable too.

Good God what a pair of kids. Sounds like they need their heads banging together. Would it really have been such a big deal for your DH to get dressed.

PurpleLostPrincess... Sorry, I wasn't tryin to browbeat you. I've just seen it so very often and kids absorb so much, even the stuff you don't want them to.

If my DH was like yours, we'd be having a frank discussion about hygiene for starters. If it's depression, then go to the GP and explain it there - if it's laziness then it's time for a kick up the bum. Either way, no action is not an option. If his skin is a problem, the GP can refer him to a dermatologist if necessary - but will mention the BO if it's apparent. Perhaps your DH would take it better from an 'outsider'?

Where your mum is concerned, she sounds very disappointed for you. However, also having a mum that feels 'disappointment' so keenly that it can seem like a 'swipe at you', you need to stop her from doing that. My mum used to say to me.. "We are not at home to Mr Rude", when I was.... and when I said it back to her when I was an adult and she was being insufferable, it stopped her in her tracks... we laughed about it then and I think it broke the ice to enable me to get her to see that she isn't the oracle of everything and that when she's at our home, she must behave accordingly, not as if our home is an extension of hers where we all get sent to the 'naughty step'.

As you say, you have a lot on your plate at the moment but I'd start with your DH... he needs to address his issues so that you can stand alongside him, 100% square.

Thanks Worra, by the way, I see DD2 sometimes and link that (wrongly) with the age....

LWITW, thank you, not taken as browbeaten at all . It's hard to know what information is relevant on here so I thought I'd provide the facts on DD2.

As far as DH goes, he sees the GP regularly and he has had counselling about this too. He sees the local mental health centre on a regular basis but we're thinking of asking for a fresh diagnosis as he's been in the system for so long, they just seem to ask all the same questions every visit. He has severe depression, OCD, 2nd grade agoraphobia, anxiety attacks, not to mention his sciatica and other ailments. I am extremely proud to say that he has kicked a very strong maraujana habit 2 years ago which involved me kicking him out and he stayed at my parents for 2 months . He has unfortunately turned to painkillers, partly because of pain, but also for a high. Our family GP has been very supportive again but I do wonder if he has got BPD. He has tried to work on 3 separate occassions in the past 5 years but has ended up having a major breakdown as a result bless him.

Anyway, I'm rambling again so will stop now - just filling in the gaps as such.

Sounds like some very complex issues there, PurpleLostPrincess. Your DH did well to kick his drug habit. If he stayed with your parents for 2 months, perhaps that's where this 'extra mothering' has come from? Your mum perhaps sees him as an errant child and therefore says things that are really out of line because of it.

I'm just wondering whether you could go to one of these appointments with your DH, Purple? It may be that they just 'mop up' whatever the biggest problem is without looking at the whole person? I went with my brother when he was struggling and put together a whole list of the problems he was having so that the doctor could read it and start sorting the list without having to take notes. I don't know if that would be helpful for you or not?

I'd be worried too about the use of painkillers to get a 'high', it's all too easy. He sounds like he needs another assessment and to get the actions he must take 'batted back to him' to get on with his part in managing his health.

I was going to say that your mum was BU until I read about the serious marijuana habit and now the painkiller addiction. He hardly sounds like the ideal son in law does he?. I am not surprised your mum is pissed off by his behaviour. Sorry I do have sympathy for mh issues but I think your dh is ripping the piss out of it a bit.
Get him back to docs to sort out painkiller problems and tell him to shower ffs.

Your mum is BU.

slavetofilofax: And you say you have to work for her in a way to pay back or thank her for the support you have been given by your parents, but ask yourself, if your dd needs support in the future, will you expect pay back for it, or will you just do it because that's what parents do?

Not at all, I don't have to work for them, I choose to out of respect and to help them. They haven't put pressure on me to do it at all. There was talk of me taking over the business a few years down the line but not sure if it will still be running by then. Either way it's my choice.

Your poor dh, just lost his own Mum, gets treated like crap by his MIL, and then doesn't even get the full support of his wife because he has to row with her over it!

You're right, I'm going to give him a hug when he comes in from the shed (he's a gamer!), even if he does smell!