to still be shocked at the 9/11 attacks

[AuntiePickleBottom]

i am watching a programme on itv1 about the 9/11 attacks and it still sends shivers down my spine.

Can anyone tell me the name of the show where it spoke to the children affected?

Yes Holocaust denial is a criminal offence in some countries. I think Holocaust denial is awful and crazy, to my mind where exactly IS there ANY evidence it did not happen?! Anyhow the problem is even though you and I find Holocaust denial totally wrong, we still can't actually stop what someone thinking or saying it is not true...because you can't control them...even if they know they could be arrested and go to prison, they might still say something and get arrested anyway. There are prison sentences for crimes but some people still commit crimes.
9/11 was a terrible crime committed against thousands of people, but who did it and the details of what happened, is still up for questioning, because the 9/11 Commission Report has more holes in it than a sieve, and many witnesses that were to testify at it, died in suspicious circumstances, that leaves me saying "I want to know more".

The Government couldn't even conceal Bill Clinton's affair, do you really think they could keep their involvement in the slaughter of 3000 of it's own citizens a secret? The resources it would take. Do you think it's possible that not a single person involved would have a guilty enough conscience to come forth? Not one? Even for their names being remembered for being the whistle blower on one of the greatest crimes ever? These so called "truthers" are mostly following Dylan Avery's awful "loose change" which by the way, he was marketing as a fictional account or a spoof, before he realised that making out he actually believed any of that crap would get his self satisfied picture in the papers.

I used to be a conspiracy theorist. Then I grew up.

Sookeh that's precisely the point. No-one has come forward. It's the illogicality that also annoys me. Bizarre statements such as 'steel doesn't melt' etc. Shall we all take a trip to the blacksmith and watch this indestructable substance in action?... oh, hang on a minute.

Now I can quite believe that there was a catalogue of cock-ups and other crap in the run-up to 9/11... people missed by the security services... information ignored as irelevant that later turned out to be relevant... that's totally normal and precisely what you'd expect to find as everyone tries to throw off the blame and point the finger elsewhere. But how we get from 'the CIA was caught napping' to 'a national government deliberately engineered a massive atrocity on their own people'... has never made any sense to me whatsoever.

@Sookeh, hi, in answer to 'do you think it's possible that not a single person involved would have a guilty enough conscience to come forth? Not one?' V. Good point!! and no I don't think it is possible that no one would come forward...from what I read some people have (or did) try to come forward and have died in suspicious circumstance. Also this happened...who knows, maybe he tried to say something he knew about 9/11???

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8238020/Former-Reagan-and-Bush-aide-found-murdered-in-rubbish-dump.html

Also there are organisations like the CIA, where everything you do is meant to SECRET, even if you don't like what you are asked to do..but I still believe some would in the end tell, the problem is, if the government did do 9/11 they probably WILL NOT WANT ANYONE EVER TO FIND OUT! anyone brave enought to speak may get dealt with badly - maybe ruined financially or even bumped off..so perhaps people are just too scared. Infact I met someone once who claimed he was M16, he was very, very, very drunk at the time and was blurting out all these things that he claimed were state secrets, but I don't know if to believe what he said or if he was who said he was because he was blind drunk and I didn't know him before that day.

here is another article about the Bush aide who was murdered
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1358447/Pentagon-aide-killed-hitman-claims-distraught-widow.html

His wife is convinced there were people within the Pentagon who wanted him dead. This could be nothing to do with 9/11, but just shows what can happen to someone with important knowledge.

Off to work now.

Even if there was some truth to the conspiracies around 9/11, anyone who takes a legitimate interest in looking at the evidence of what happened on that day, is unfortunately lumped in with people like David Icke.

I thought some of what he's said about other things to be interesting, not credible, but I like different ways of viewing the accepted view of how things work.

But he had to spoil it all by banging on about the royal family being fucking lizards

That was the 'V' program on telly in the 80's you idiot

How bloodlines have been fostered over millennia so only a few families are in positions of power is compelling, mostly because it's true, but tipping over into the realms of 'reptilian humanoids' isn't going to make what you say about other conspiracies accepted as anything but bunkum.

I don't think you're in the whackadoodle camp bumble (although it does sound like fun ) but I can understand why other people might make generalisations about your view and want to discredit it for disrupting what they thought they knew about how things are.

Work hard

@ Cogito. I totally agree.

I wish these so called "truthers" focussed their anger on the very real failings of the people and organisations who failed to protect the U.S that day, cock up after cock up that resulted in thousands of deaths.

@ Bumble, you believe what you believe but I am 100% certain that someone, one of the many thousands it would take to keep the murder of 3000 of it's own people a secret, would have an attack of conscience and come forward. It doesn't matter the threat, someone would have come forward.

WRT the buildings collapsing into their own footprint like a "controlled demolition" they didn't actually, at all. They also fell at such an angle as to destroy many many other buildings within the vicinity, which wouldn't have happened in a controlled demolition.

Frankly the "truther" movement makes me so .

They should place the blame where it so clearly lies and focus on the very real failings that day to make sure it never happens again. To do anything else is to insult the memory of everyone whose lives were taken away that day by terrorists, not the government, terrorists.

I don't think you're nuts by the way Bumble I just think that you've been manipulated by the disinformation out there, I was there once so did a lot of my own research and came to a different conclusion.

I actually quite like David Icke I find some of his theories very compelling, lizards from space not withstanding.

Don't be angry with the 'truther' movement sookeh, if it wasn't for some nerdy tech geek with far too much time on their hands them, governments would probably try to get away with far more than they do at the min.

A bit like journalists (disliked as they are) giving some balance (even if it is biased) to the government.

They have to be given some credit for the important unofficial job they do.

I should think the truther types make it more possible to keep things hidden because of the sheer volume of crap like 'steel doesn't melt... proof' you have to wade through to find the one tiny sliver of 'information' in the middle. Assuming you can be bothered in the first place. Best place to hide a book is in a library etc.

Avery deserves no credit. He's a manipulative, sanctimonious little gob shite.

Say anything like that to a truther though and I'd probably be accused of being a plant from MI6 or the FBI.

It makes me that they could be using all that anger, all that momentum and drive that they have to focus on real issues, like the lack of free health care available to the emergency responders still dying of cancer ten years on.

Bumble, your critical thinking abilities are evident in that you don't seem able to understand my point. Its no real surprise that you've swallowed the bunkum.

Of course anyone can think what they like in the privacy of their own mind. Nobody cares. However once you say it out loud, write it on the internet, whatvever, you're not just entitled to any old opinion you like. Some of them are illegal, some offensive, some libellous. Bleating "I can think and say what I like" is both naive and erroneous.

If you don't like the truth my opinion, why don't you tell it to David Icke?

Now come on, you cannot compare people who question the official story of 9/11 with holocaust denial - that is ridiculous and unfair.

People who question the story of 9/11 are not saying the people did not die, they are saying they think someone else might have killed them.

Holocaust denial is a whole other nasty concept rooted in what is probably racist sentiment, to put it bluntly.

Some people are cynical - that does not put them on the same level as David Icke.

There's a difference between being cynical and stating openly that the American government murdered 3000 of it's own people, which is what the truther movement claimed.

When a supposed truther heckled Bill Clinton accusing him of contributing to the cover up, he simply looked him dead in the eye and said "how dare you"

I feel the same way.

Can't you? I can, clearly. Not as bad, I grant you, but the illustration is clear.

Cynical does not equal conkers territory. I'm cynical. I'm not a conspiracy nut though.

Well let the US government take legal action for the libellous claims then (eye roll).

As I said I do believe the official story but I can see why people are so suspicious of governments when we all know they behave shockingly and don't actually care about their citizens. And you cannot deny there is evidence of that.

Oh yes Bill Clinton, Mr 'I did not have sex with that woman' - we can all believe everything he says.

Siamo, are you saying that anyone who believes any evidence suggesting the official version of a death or disaster has so many holes you could us it to strain spag, only finds it credible because they're just the type of person who has a propensity to look for conspiracies?

Are there any conspiracy theories you think there may be a shred of truth in? Like the ones I posted about earlier, David Kelly and Alexander Litvenenko?

Deaths that maybe make you think something's been afoot that the people involved in it don't think it would be in their interests to make public?

Bit of a leap from lying about an affair (which he wasn't powerful enough to cover up) to lying about a mass murder on American soil though isn't it?

Conspiracy theories that hold water turn into real theories. Collective intelligence can tell the difference. You just know crazy when you see it. The application of logic, a bit of common sense and IQ greater than a rescue dog can soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

That's not the point. The point is that people have become increasingly mistrustful of what governments are doing because politicians do not tell the truth. This may sometimes result in misguided opinions but does not mean the people that hold them are nutters.

Is that a yes then Siamo?