to still be shocked at the 9/11 attacks

[AuntiePickleBottom]

i am watching a programme on itv1 about the 9/11 attacks and it still sends shivers down my spine.

Fuck no AgentZigzag, I am aware that the peace and safety I and my children live in is bought with other people's blood.

Do I like it? Nope.

Do I think given we are human it is necessary for there to be winners and losers? Yep.

Do I want my family to be amongst the winners? Yep.

Would I do whatever necessary to secure that, including the murder of innocents? Yes.

I just don't pretend that other people do not feel exactly the same way, nor do I pretend that other people are not denied food and resources everytime I take something for my family.

We pretend in the West that we are the good guys, that our way of life is the right way and that terrible things happen to those other people because they deserve it really. It isn't true, we are all the same, we all want power and resources for our family for the people we are about.

Very little that humans do surprises or shocks me.

I assume everyone is out to look after themselves and their families. The world proves this assumption right time after time.

Well..no. Not everyone is about looking out for themselves. Some people have a different world view - some nation-statehoods don't get that - but we are def. into a globalised world now where the good of all is synonymous with the good of the invidual. Globally, we just need leaders who can work out how to manage that.

It isn't going to happen Pan, there isn't enough to go around. Would you see your children suffer to feed someone else's?

I wouldn't. You think the people starving in Africa wouldn't fight and take what they could if they had any power at all?

Look at the world, people are selfish - it is the way it is. Pretending otherwise is head in the sand and only possible because of the might we are able to exercise in keep our people safe.

I assume everyone is out to look after themselves and their families. The world proves this assumption right time after time.

i disagree, many people donate blood, bone marrow and even organs after they pass away...this may be the diffrence between life and death, and the person does not even know who they are donating to

We look forward to the time when the Power of Love will replace the Love of Power. Then will our world know the blessings of peace. ~William Ewart Gladstone

I feel the same morloth, although I do think we're the (relative) good guys, I don't think those other people deserve to be knocked down.

We're far from perfect, but I believe (going on the historical evidence of how our society has evolved over time) that we are at a stage where we are more likely to achieve an egalitarian world than any alternatives.

That is a simplistic view I know, because of the torture and destruction we also meet out to people in other countries, but ours is a (relatively) stable politcal structure and that means shed loads when it comes down to brass tacks.

We'll go the way all 'conquerors' go in the end and be knocked down at some point no doubt.

'After they pass away'

Would you donate a kidney to a complete stranger while you were still alive? Would you do it for your kids?

If you would do it for a complete stranger why haven't you done so? Lots of people need them.

When you get paid do you buy food for your children or do you spend the whole lot on someone elses?

I am not saying this is 'right' by the way, I am saying it is how it is.

And hence it is why I am no more shocked by 9/11 then I am by the Israelis and the Palestinians killing each other over a patch of desert or any other war that has ever happened. People generally behave in exactly the way I expect them to.

If somebody decided they wanted Australia I would want our army to use any means necessary to defend it, up to and including striking at the other country.

The people in the WTC were casaulties of war, it is just that we don't expect the war to happen in our homes.

Empires rise and fall.

I don't think things will ever change.

Morloth - Ithink you are missing th point - all of your scenarios are really easy to answer. The whole 9/ll question, and it's aftermath, and globalisation into the future will be equalising these resources - not because we are 'good', but because we will be ahving a much more shared interest in survival.

i hard to answer the organ question, as i would hate to see my DC suffering physically...but also hate to think them suffering emotinally if i was to dye on the operation table.

if it ever came to it i would split my money to feed 4 children instead of 2, even if it is food my DC are not used to

Well, that will be nice Pan, I will believe it when I see it.

But I won't be holding my breath.

It has come to it Auntie, there are children dying of starvation right now.

due to power issues, you can chuck all the money in the world at the problem....but unless you take down the 'government' the money will never reach those in need.......so the cycle continues

Morloth - it isn't nice - its just a reality as the globalisation process moves forward. 9/11 will be a small footnote in that process.

And the 'government' is made up of people who have seized power and control to protect themselves and their families. Around and around we go.

Don't misunderstand me. I count myself as selfish as anyone else. My children sleep in a warm, safe house, my toddler is plump and healthy, they get the best medical care I can buy them, they are protected by both their parents and their extended family and by their nation and that is just fine with me.

I just don't pretend that this hogging of resources doesn't make other people angry and that they would not take it if given the chance. Nor do I pretend that because I get to live in the lovely place I somehow deserve it more than anyone else or am a better person than them.

9/11 is only shocking in that the US could not protect itself, we tended to think of them as an unassailable power - this was demonstrated as not the case.

As I said Pan I will believe it when I see it, until then I will continue to be totally unsurprised when people act like people.

yes, rather my point morloth - it will be in the interests of 'people' to be inter-connected globally, but you seem to be pre-occupied right now with whats in front of your nose, which is understandable.

So sickening, I was an air hostess, working that day..I was always so terrified working after that, scared to death of terrorism. Fast forward to a few years ago, I see the film 'Loose Change' OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..you see that ...G.Bush brother was in charge of security at the towers, he ordered that sniffer dogs be removed weeks before the attacks. People working in the towers heard loads of drilling going on all over 2 weeks running up to the attacks (explosives being put in). Finding out the steel can't melt with jet fuel..only very advanced explosives ...that there was no wreckage found when flight 93 crashed into a field (impossible in a plane crash)..could go on..that is what is now making me sick & scared of our own governments & what they get up to

'but you seem to be pre-occupied right now with whats in front of your nose' Correct, and what is in front of my nose is the same as what is in front on the noses of the other 6 and a half billion people on a planet that is groaning under the weight.

We have always tussled over resources and power and we always will. Wars will be fought, there will be winners and losers because the vast majority of people can only be concerned with what is in front of their noses because they don't live lives of western power and influence and don't have time for grand ideas of a global utopia.

People would have to change so drastically to achieve what you are talking about, it just ain't gonna happen.

ok morloth - again you miss the point, and so i'll stop now.

Good plan, because I suspect most people will miss your point and thus it will never happen.

you don't have to be a nutty conspiracy theorist.....just take a look who doesn't believe the official version..patriotsquestion911.com/

seems a deal morlath.