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Original poster

to think that evicting hundreds of travellers from their site is unfair and immoral

1004 replies

rocketty · 31/08/2011 20:38

It's an illegal site. They didn't have planning permission. It's greenbelt...

but it used to be a car scrapyard (not rolling fields and thatched cottages then), they own the land and it's right next to a legal settlement.

They've obviously broken the law by settling here, but on balance, wouldn't it be more ethical to let them be? The children are settled at school and getting an education. Lots of people are prejudiced against gypsies and travellers but they've got to live somewhere.

I've seen the news articles about it. It makes me feel sad.

OP posts:
Mouseface · 03/09/2011 12:35

We have a Travellers community just outside of our little village. The delivery driver who often brings packages to the house lives there.

He's lovely. They all are. We see them in the local shop and Post Office. They have been there for many years, it's permanent site and as yet, in the years I've lived here, there has been no trouble.

If it were a family of Muslims who had built on the land, in exactly circumstances, the uproar would be horrific. But because they are 'Travellers' they should be made homeless?

Really?

Even when their children go to schools, they have made homes on that land.

I agree with the legal aspects but surely it's better them being there than having to re-house them all, find new school places etc.

That's just not logical is it?

AnneWiddecomesArse · 03/09/2011 12:35

Bubbles. I don't spout crap; but you might want to do a word check/spelling

ragged · 03/09/2011 12:35

What do you all think of the UN's call for Basildon council to find "culturally appropriate" accommodation for those being evicted. What would be culturally appropriate? Genuine question. Given the stated preference for the travellers to live only part-time-of-the-year in large family groups, would it mean housing for people that wouldn't normally qualify for council housing? And having special council-housing rules, like how long tenancy is for, maintenance & occupancy rules, etc.? just for them?

working9while5 · 03/09/2011 12:37

You are missing the point, SarahStratton.

I have been harassed by members of another group in society but I don't think that everyone from that group is scum.

My father was abused by a paedophile priest and went on to work as a psychotherapist with both victims and perpetrators of sexual abuse. He still goes to Mass (he is on a weekend retreat with some monks this week1) because he doesn't believe taking Holy Orders makes you a paedophile. You can condemn actions without condemning groups of people, even if there may be trends within certain groups for higher levels of criminal activity.

Teachermumof3 · 03/09/2011 12:38

Mouseface-what a load of rubbish! If anybody had done this, there would be outrage-IT IS AGAINST THE LAW!

Do you mean that the law should only be implemented when it's easy to do so?

Takeresponsibility · 03/09/2011 12:42

If anyone had moved in and trashed the area I work bloody hard and am permanently skint to live in, I would be furious. I wouldn't care if they are travellers, Muslims, priests or happy smiley people who hug trees all day they can piss off.

If no one took action then I would probably poison the water supply - if human rights mean you can act however you like, then I would deem it my human right to do the same.

SarahStratton · 03/09/2011 12:43

I'm not, working. The whole camp used to join in. Adults, children, the lot. Probably, that experience has clouded my judgement, but I'm from Essex and I know quite a few people from the surrounding area of Dale Farm, plus one family who live very close. And their experiences mirror mine. If there are decent people living on Dale Farm they are a) very much the minority, and b) they are not doing anything to stop the vast majority who behave like animals.

AnneWiddecomesArse · 03/09/2011 12:44

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CurrySpice · 03/09/2011 12:44

Scarlettsmummy2 you say: "their education may not be important to the childrens parents but it doesnt mean the child doesn't have a right to it. And some education to help they get out of that cycle is better than none, leaving them trapped.I believe that we have a duty of care to those children and even a little help is better than none."

Do you live near Crays Hill? Do you know what lengths Essex CC has gone to to provide education for the children atthis site?

I suggest you check that out before you imply that people have not exercised their "duty of care"

CurrySpice · 03/09/2011 12:46

Mouseface - I assume there aren't over 1000 people on the site near you like there is in Essex (also in a small village)

working9while5 · 03/09/2011 12:47

"Jesus wept Working9. I speak as a strong Catholic.
Your're up the fucking creek without an oar.
Back off; and don't engage."

Are you talking to yourself here? Don't engage with who? You? Your comment barely makes sense.

SarahStratton, of course. You are right. The whole camp was bad so ergo all Travellers are scum. I see the light!

Mouseface · 03/09/2011 12:48

No, Teacher not at all. BUT, if a family of Muslims/Indians/Purple headed donkeys were to be evicted, I personal think that the uproar would be far louder.

Travellers seem to be moved on because people don't want them on their doorstep. Especially in rural villages where most of the resident are white, English and over 50! (like here). I've been to village meetings where Travellers get the blame for almost everything, even though their children attend the village school, they keep the place and surrounding area clean, and as far as I know, stay out of trouble.

Their 'label' proceeds them.

This isn't my POV, I think that if they have broken the law, then they should be punished by why evict them? Surly it would be better to come to an agreement where they rent the land? Pay a fine? I don't know, I just find it sad that people are going to lose their homes.

But of course, I know they have broken the law and the law is the law no matter one. One rule for all.

My point teacher was that I think Travellers get less support by the public than Muslims or other minorities do.

IMO. That's all.

AnneWiddecomesArse · 03/09/2011 12:49

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Mouseface · 03/09/2011 12:50

No, curry, it's a very small settlement, less than 200 people. The place in Essex was featured in Gypsy Weddings. I saw then how much trouble they had with local residents. I guess each place is different and I can only speak for our area.

Mouseface · 03/09/2011 12:51

How do you know that Anne?

SarahStratton · 03/09/2011 12:52

No, working. But having grown up in Essex, had to live near temporary and illegal camps, and lived there long enough to see Dale Farm well under way I can honestly say I have never met any decent ones either.

Are you aware that they are planning to use their children as human shields? And that they are stockpiling gas cannisters and lining the camp perimeters with them?

Mouseface · 03/09/2011 12:53

Anne - I'm not on about that, I'm talking about it being the exact same circumstances, except for it not being Travellers. I believe there would be more support for any other minority.

working9while5 · 03/09/2011 12:53

I am not condoning criminal behaviour, as I said before. I don't condone criminal behaviour nor do I have a rosy view of the Traveller lifestyle. I just don't condone the use of words like "scum" to describe whole groups of people either.

Mouseface · 03/09/2011 12:58

Agree with you working Smile

Blueberties · 03/09/2011 13:04

Mouseface, you make our point for us.

"BUT, if a family of Muslims/Indians/Purple headed donkeys were to be evicted, I personal think that the uproar would be far louder. Travellers seem to be moved on because people don't want them on their doorstep."

This is because it's not about whether you are Muslim, Indian, purple-headed, a donkey or a traveller.

It's about how you behave and whether you obey the law.

I don't care who lives next door to me so long as they're law-abiding and recognise the general civil code of behaviour even when the law doesn't apply. And it would be nice if they were friendly too but you can't always hae that.

I should think every single person on this thread would agree with me.

People don't want travellers on their doorstep NOT because of their traveller/Muslim/Indian heritage/ethnicity/background/race whatever. It's because of the way they have behaved in the past and because of the way they behave in the present and because there is no reason to believe that behaviour is going to change when they do live on your doorstep.

That's it. Beginning and end that is it. Absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity at all.

AnneWiddecomesArse · 03/09/2011 13:05

Direct experience Mouseface.
I dealt with the massive exodus from Uganda in the 80's.
I spent 10 years in the flats around Hillfields, Coventry.
I dealt with drug dealers, prostitutes. pimps.

Don't try to tell me that I don't have experience.

Blueberties · 03/09/2011 13:08

This is all here and there.

Fact is, OP is wrong, they should be evicted, bing bang bong.

working9while5 · 03/09/2011 13:26

AWA, you dealt with the massive exodus from Uganda in the 80's? Single handedly? How? What constitutes "dealing with" immigration?

The flats around Hillfields, Coventry? I have no knowledge of these, it's hardly like referencing Compton is it!!

AnneWiddecomesArse · 03/09/2011 13:30

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SarahStratton · 03/09/2011 13:34

It's not exactly going to be a debate if someone keeps reporting AWA's posts. Let them stand, and allow others to draw their own conclusions, please.

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