to think that evicting hundreds of travellers from their site is unfair and immoral

[rocketty]

It's an illegal site. They didn't have planning permission. It's greenbelt...

but it used to be a car scrapyard (not rolling fields and thatched cottages then), they own the land and it's right next to a legal settlement.

They've obviously broken the law by settling here, but on balance, wouldn't it be more ethical to let them be? The children are settled at school and getting an education. Lots of people are prejudiced against gypsies and travellers but they've got to live somewhere.

I've seen the news articles about it. It makes me feel sad.

Mollydoggerson-are the properties in Ireland build on land that the travellers own?

What do folk in Limerick think of these goings on-just out of interest?

I don't think ethnicity has anything to do with it. I can totally see why people would not want a travellers pitched up beside them, however, the reality is they have to go somewhere. They aren't going to go back to Ireland as many have never lived there to begin with! So what exactly is the solution? Now the council have evicted them, they have a duty of care to re-house them. All they have done is moved the problem.

They may move up the road and take over another village, or they may be rehomed in the nice private tenancy in the same street as some of the people on here complaining about them, but at the end of the day they will have to live somewhere.

And also to the point about buyng a building site- how do you propose they do it with no means of getting a mortgage??

They generally don't like renting or living in council houses because a rented house is not a man's castle. It belongs to some other man, basically. In a caravan on the side of the road a man is master of all he surveys.

I own my land and it is greenbelt. There is settlement adjoining. Does this mean I can just build a few houses there despite the greenbelt restriction and no planning pernission? Id love to.

They have a thing about mortgages too, as basically the bank owns the house. They are not consumers in the modern sense. My grandparents had the same attitudes (Irish farmers). Don't let the bank get a grip on your property/don't ever live on a council estate/save until you can pay cash for what you need -- they are old fashioned just as my grandparents were. Except my grandparents were very keen on school for their children. Travellers like cash.

Scarlettsymummy2 - seriously? Travellers don't 'Do' mortgages -only cash transactions.

'They generally don't like renting or living in council houses because a rented house is not a man's castle. It belongs to some other man, basically. In a caravan on the side of the road a man is master of all he surveys.'

Well, then, they can find a way to do it legally just like anyone else who wanted to live in such a fashion.

banana- wether you meant your comment to be offensive or not, I found your comments racist.

The london rioters really pissed me off, many of whom did not have anglo saxon roots, however, i would never have dreamt of saying they should fu*k back off to Jamaica for example because I see them as being part of British life regardless of their heritage. If you put your comments into this context surely you can see how they would be innapropriate.

what I meant was they say they are an ethnic minority and they feel they are being persecuted and use it to manipulate the law and gain sympathy.

I think some of them are quite wealthy and if they are given a council house, they are more fortunate than alot of the poor people who have been waiting patiently for years' on the housing list.

there was an article in the Mail this week written by a chap called David Mcgrath who had to live alongside travellers in the Midlands. he received death threats and the police would not help. I think it must be awful to live somewhere and then find someone just appears in a field opposite you overnight. I am glad I live in suburbia where most of the land has been already built on.

Oh and there a specific sites with houses etc built for the unique ethnic group that is travellers, and there is footage of the fact that in some cases they have chosen to house their animals (horses), in the houses and they prefer to live in their mobile homes.

Scarlettsmummy- are you a traveller? If not, have you ever actually had dealings with them?

I am going to bow out now. Banana, if you can not work out why a traveller is unlikely to get a mortgage that would enable them to buy a building site and then build a house, bearing in mind the earlier information about education levels and type of work carried out by the travelling community, you really aren't able to cope with an intelligent conversation.

go back to watching Jeremy Kyle, its more on your level.

goodnight

'They generally don't like renting or living in council houses because a rented house is not a man's castle. It belongs to some other man, basically. In a caravan on the side of the road a man is master of all he surveys.'
Does this still apply 'when all he surveys' belongs to some poor farmer who neglected to barricade the gateway to his field with 12 tonnes of hardcore?

And it comes back again and again, to the simple fact that if they behaved in a more acceptable and less anti-social way, they would not find such vehement opposition to their presence everywhere they go. It would be a very lovely thing indeed if we could have loads of gypsy and traveller sites all over the country where they could stop a few weeks here, a few weeks there, then go about their business without anyone feeling any ill effects. Perhpas that is how it used to be. Sadly not any longer. I appreciate that their culture has been eroded somewhat over the last 50 years or so, and many of their choices have been taken away, but frankly my culture has been eroded too - but I must just get on with it, and adapt, evolve, move on, embrace change - and so should they.

Come back when you've actually had dealings with them Scarlettsmummy, then talk to me.

I think that you have hit the nail on the head Fellatio. I think what you say is very sensible.

and yes, I do have dealings with travellers. I have recently been a case worker for a young girl who grew up in the travelling community from irish descent, she was made homeless by the council, taken into care, and has no formal education. My orgaisation set her up in a tenancy and we got her an apprenticeship. So I imagine I have more experience than you.

you do realise, that these are real people?? they may not choose to live in the same way as you or I, but that doesn't mean that they should just be left to rot. Someone will have to pick up the pieces. And so far, no-one has come up with a viable solution to dealing with travelling communities.

I couldn't care less if they were travellers or Martians. They parked up there and built up on a greenbelt site knowing it was illegal, then tried to use human rights legislation to circumvent planning policy and laws. Their failed in this endeavour, now they are being evicted. No sympathy at all as far as I'm concerned.

I can very well understand why many Traveller people might have difficulty finding work and getting a mortgage etc. But to me that makes the education issue even more difficult to understand. Most people want their children to have the choices and opportunities in life that they never had themselves, not to try to hold them back.

I know that way of thinking (not valuing education) isn't unique to the Traveller community by any means, but does seem to be quite widespread there.

As for not liking mortgages etc - I'm sure most of us don't like having our home owned by the bank, or having to pay rent to someone else. But unless you're in the rare position of being wealthy enough to buy property outright, it's just something we have to get used to.