To find it unsettling that mum's still threaten to smack childrens bums in public?

[kitya]

Ive just been to the nail parlour and this perfectly nice mum in her early twenties told her daughter that if she didnt sit still she would pull her knickers down and smack her bum. I thought that went out with the 70's? I didnt know where to look. She was telling me about starting uni and everything but, I couldnt concentrate and what she was saying after that.

i reason with my 3 year old all the time. he's not a bloody rabbit, he's a perfectly intelligent human being who can understand actions and consequences and is learning (as his very well behaved and non smacked 10 year old brother did in the same way) how to control them.

Ditto mrsravelstein.

I'm not perfect - I have lost my temper and smacked my son on occasion. It never ends as well as when I am patient enough to use other methods. I think I'm lazy and selfish when I do it, and I feel very guilty.

I don't want my son to think that smacking is ok - so on the occasions when I have lost it I apologise and talk about why I got to the point where I felt I had to smack. It doesn't make it right though.

and if a child is too young to understand reasoning, they are probably too young to be deliberately naughty, in which case punishing them with a smack seems a bit pointless.

my 18 month old dd is going through a stage of hitting her big brothers at the moment if she gets frustrated with them or has one of their toys denied. she is somewhat too young to really understand what the problem is, and too young to understand why hitting them is wrong, so how would me smacking her help remotely? however what she doesn't like is to see me making a big fuss over the hit brother, and speaking to her in a harsh tone of voice... so within a few minutes she will come over and join me in giving ds1/ds2 a hug. i think she is learning much more this way.

But actually doing it or threatening it in a "you've pushed my buttons by being so irritating" jokey way is different. I might tell my dd that I'll peg her to the washing line by her earlobes if she continues something - doesn't actually mean I'll do it!

Mrs Ravelstein,

Children are obviously intelligent and that is what gives them the capacity to be naughty. Some children are naturally very very well behaved and some children are naturally very naughty. For the vast majority, however, they are good most of the time and occasionally want to challenge the boundaries. That is where discipline (as opposed to explanations) comes in.

A lot of discipline issues arise due to siblings either encouraging one another to be naughty or being naughty to one another. With a 7 year age gap, you clearly do not have those issues. For both I and my brother growing up (13.5 month gap) and our two sons (2.3 and 10 months) 95% of the discipline issues were/are between siblings.

It is then a question of what discipline to use. A smack has the great advantage in that the child does not have to consent to the punishment which, to some extent, they do for a time out or naughty step. There is always the issue of what happens if a child refuses to stand on the naughty step or rampages around the room during a time out. It is also over very quickly and not drawn out as some other punishments are. Personally, I also remember far preferring a quick smack to the humiliation of ostracism or imprisonment, but others may be different at that level.

I find it unsettling that mums go to nail parlours. [hmmm]

I don't really understand this whole attitude of wanting to do something nice for your appearance = bad mother. I personally don't do false nails but I have friends who are mums who get them done for special occasions and I don't see how it affects their parenting. I do think that taking a 4 year old with you and expecting them to sit quietly the whole time is unreasonable though, but getting a babysitter and then going to a nail parlour is fine.

Agree with Heidi,.

No reason why mothers can't go to nailparlours/ waxing salons/ hairdressers/ pampering salons with lightly oiled Johnny Depp lookalike waiters serving cocktails - but taking a 4 year old with you and expecting them to sit still while you get pampered = fuckwitted behaviour. Threatening to smack them because they behave like a 4 year old in that situation - pathetic.

Op I think what I find disturbing is the inappropriateness of the threat. A smack for failing to sit still seems ott and a touch bizarre frankly. However dh and I have threatened to take ds to one side and smank him (with intent). This punishment is only used for completely out of contol behaviour which he has been told to stop repeatedly and has ignored. We have a wide range of parenting and disciplinary strategies, this is reserved for behaviour that cannot be allowed to continue (eg:kicking sand in his sister's face, throwing stones too close to people) In these situations, he needs imeadiate discipline to stop him right then, not when we get home. He was last spa spanked about 18m ago and yes it was by his Dad with his shorts down, as others say the threat is enough.

Words fail me.

I don't want a punishment that shocks my children. They love me and trust me and generally want to please me (which I imagine is true of most young children) even if they can be fairly difficult at times. They get upset when I let them know I am cross with them. My ds is fairly hyper and I try to avoid situations that test him too much and he is improving as he gets older. My general approach is to decide what behavior I am willing to put up with ( and then I don't fuss about it) and what behavior i won't put up with. I try to see if there is a way to defuse it without discipline ( there often is- eg, making sure child is in trolley, avoiding places, cups with lid for a deliberate drink spiller) and then only a few things needs discipline - in our case 123 and sent to room. This approach seems to have turned the toddler from hell into a good little boy, so I am quite happy.

FWIW, my parents did not smack but they shouted all the time which is also horrible.

What did he do, and where were you?

Are you saying the threat is enough now you have actually done this?

Sorry that was for naughtymummy

?

tbh i find swearing, hollering, screaming and shouting at a child way more frightening & damaging to them then a quick smack on the bum for doing something potentially dangerous, after warnings.

Do you mean him becoming good? Because that happened over a few years as he became more rational. But yes, the threat works, because I always follow up. It is harder if we are out. If he won't listen, I will just leave a place. When he was younger, I used to say that I needed an exit strategy but now most situations are fine.

It is vile, lazy parenting carried out by moronic half wits without the brain capacity to think through the consequences of actions

The same could be said for the anti smacking 'now now Tarquin don't do that, the man will tell you off' fuckwits who cba to discipline their child and not agreeing with smacking is a convenient smokescreen..

Sorry, thought that question was for me

Screamin is awful. My parents used to yell at us in public, in front of our friend and theirs which was horribly humiliating for us and, you would think, embarrassing for them. But they obviously weren't embarrassed and no one ever said anything to them.

Yes, Bimbo, nobody is denying that either - there are more than those two options, you know.

Trying,

I think avoiding stressful situations in order to avoid discipline is copping out. Children need to learn to behave in different situations and they will come across many as they grow up and as adults. If you avoid the situations, you are leaving the teaching of coping strategies to teachers, playmates and eventually, their bosses. Is this really what you want?

I think that it is important, as a parent, to give my 2 year old an adult cup so that he can spill it ("I made a big mess") and I can then confiscate it from him. He will learn that actions have consequences. It is a bore but I think it is worth it. Equally, we leave him for short periods alone with his brother (within earshot). If he pushes or hits him he gets punished. Bizarrely, he is remarkably honest about what he has done even if it is going to earn him a smack. He learns fast and now very rarely hurts his baby brother. He prefers to give him a kiss and cuddle and get lots of praise. I think this old fashioned idea of carrot and stick (with carrots much favoured but sticks not completely ignored) has brought up nice well behaved people for generations and cannot be outdated by more modern and experimental methods.

There are times to avoid stressful situations. I try to avoid punishing him at all if he is under the weather or in the last hour before bed. I would avoid difficult situations at those times.

So Larrygrylls, you put your son in situation he is not ready for (giving him a cup you know he is not ready to use) so that you can punish him when he inevitably spills his drink? Did I get that right?

Madame,

You know more about my son than me? I am impressed. Can you tell me what he would enjoy eating for lunch today as well or what book he would like for his bedtime story this evening? I would really appreciate your insights.

I put him in situations which he is ready for but finds challenging. With regard to his baby brother, it is really important he learns to be gentle with him (he is 99% there) and with regard to a grown up cup, the "punishment" is merely replacing the grown up cup (which he wants to learn to use) with one with a spout until the next meal. I think he can deal with it.

2 year olds are honest because they haven't learnt to lie. Ds was impossible when he was two and spilt drinks deliberately. He would ask for a drink and I would say, 'will you drink it or spill it' and he would say 'spill it!'. Anyway he was completely insensible to reason at the time, didnt care if I was cross. I did smack him once or twice at the time, when he came bouncing into our bed at 3 in the morning screaming to play trains. As it was light, he didn't care, and I wasn't going to hurt him. I know lots of 2 yr olds can be disciplined ( like my dd) but he could not be.

When he was three he started learning about consequences, and 123 magic started working and we wer on the way up. But as someone said above, if a child doesn't understand reason and consequences a smack won't work either.

I do sometimes wonder if we are 'copping out'. But we still do stuff, just if it's a choice between taking dcs into a cafe or fish and chips on the beach, we will do the latter as it is less stressful. As I said, I would never dream of expecting them to come to a hair appointment. I think that is just sensible. Eventually we will all be able to go to a restaurant. I was so pleased with ds because I needed to go to a light shop but was nervous about taking him. I told him he couldn't touch anything and he managed not to for the whole visit and was very proud of himself. He couldn't have done that 6 months ago. I really think sometimes you just have to have reasonable expectations of your dcs and wait for them sometimes.

Trying,

It does not sound as if we are so far apart.

To be honest, we tried "time outs" first but have gone down the smacking route as we find it far less stressful yet far more effective. Neither my wife nor I could deal with our 2 year old getting increasingly hysterical outside a closed door for 2 minutes yet he seems to respect the idea of a smack, even at a level which does not really hurt (he stops doing something if I say "do you want a smack" but often laughs when actually smacked).

Children are all individuals and, as a parent, you just have to work out what works for you and your family.

Before I had children I swore I would never smack my child; I was confident that I would never need to. Have I smacked my child? Yes, I have and while it had the necessary effect (child climbing out of car seat) the guilt and shame I felt afterwards was terrible.

Can I honestly say I won't smack again? While I would prefer to use other methods to discipline my children, the answer is no.

Does this make me cruel or lazy? I believe not.

To use a well-worn cliche...'it never did me any harm'. Because it really didn't.

But back to the OP, the whole knickers down/humiliation thing...that does make me very uncomfortable.

Sounds like your ds is too young to understand too. 123 magic ( not really time out, just an effective punishment) only works when a child understands the threat will have a consequence and has enough impulse control to stop. When they are at that point you hardly ever have to punish them. No point locking him up or smacking him if he is too young to understand. just wait a few months and see where he is then.