To be gutted by in-laws reaction to primary school decision

[Mindthegap007]

So, chatting to in-laws re future schools for DD1 (only 2 so early days, though August birthday so I think we need to be thinking about applications late next year) and mentioned we were seriously considering renting out our spacious 4-bed house in east London where local school is ok but usual challenges (high % kids english not first language etc) to much smaller property (2/3 bed flat probably, possibly with garden) in a nice part of north London where we know people and the schools are excellent. Fil said it was 'a bit desperate' and mil said we should consider fact that we will have '2 growing girls who will need space'. Yes, space is nice, but overall I feel a really good school is more important. Feel more disappointed/hurt than I probably should about this and not sure why. Think it's because they think I'm being a snob. Genuinely want my kids to be exposed to difference/diversity but not a expense of their education (that perennial dilemma). Probably overreacting as sleep deprived (dd2 6 months and still feeding through night) but really want to be supported in this decision rather than criticized. Btw, DP is sort of supportive but largely because he's so easygoing (I tend to make most of the decisions about most things!)

Surely it's not too much to ask that an English child gets to share a playground with children with children that are predominantly speaking English

Agree 100%

Are you talking about moving back into your now house once both DC's are enrolled in the school in the desired area? if so that's called cheating the system, why not sell up and buy in the area with the better schools?

No it doesn't make her racist. Bubbles is in England, so her children should be able to converse in English with their class and should be able to receive an eduction in English without valuable class time being lost to them because the majority of pupils don't understand the language.

If I moved to another country I would teach my children to speak the language of that country. I wouldn't expect the school to adapt for me at the expense of the local children.

I would hazard a guess that just because they have English as a second language,they can speak perfectly good English

'is it ok that my children have only 3 non white children in their whole school, even thu its a local one, or that makes me bordeline racist too?'

borderline ? No.

We are talking about language, not colour Or do you always associate the two ?

So you want to live in the wonderfully diverse london that affords you the wage to live in a spacious 4 bed home...but when it comes to availing yourself of the diverse educational system in your area you want to ship out?

And you've not even visited the local schools (are basing your opinion on ofsted ) and your kid is only 2?

Obviously your child, your choice etc, but TBH I'd stick with the 4 bedrooms rather than a flat.

Interesting article, Rosemary. I'm not at all surprised that the EAL kids eventually overtake the others - this ties in earlier with what I was saying about aspirational families.

DD has just finished year 1 and is one of only two out of eight children on the "top table" in her class who doesn't have English as an additional language - and even she is bilingual, so there is only one in the top group from a monolingual English-speaking background!

Surely when you move back your kids will have to leave all their friends and everything they know, and then have to try to fit into your current local area.

I suspect most ESL children do speak perfectly good English, that doesn't mean they will choose to when they are surrounded by a majority of other children that also speak another language predominantly at home.

I know when I was a child there would be planty of times I would have used another language that my teachers couldn't understand if all my friends spoke it too!

Racism is about discriminating against people based on race or religion, which is clearly wrong and detrimental to both the victim and the perpetrator of racism.

Choosing a school that is going to provide your child with the best possible learning environment for them is nothing whatsoever to do with racism.

My Ds went to school with a high Proportion of EAL pupils .they were nearly all extremely high achievers ,and the majority are off to university now

Oh, well... English is not the first language for either dh or me. Did not stop us from getting fantastic jobs. I am a first generation immigrant. I have unfinished medical, BA in economics and now finalizing my art degree from the best schools in their fields. I had enough compensation (salary and other payments) to have had my -substantial- mortgage paid off by the time I was 30 (before marrying dh). My dc will be ESL. You have a problem with this?

If you don't like your local community enough to send your children to school with children from their own community then I think you should move. Either you have to accept that you have to compromise on house size/area or education or you need to move out of London. Whatever you and dh decide to do it really isn't the business of your parents in law (unless of course they decide to contribute towards school fees).

FWIW my MIL still makes a cat bum face because we decided to pull our ds out of the local primary and send him to one of the best independent London day schools.

btw, I decided that medicine was not for me half-way through the course, I could have stayed on and graduated... instead I switched to study economics.... just in case some wonder if this is because my academic skills were not high enough

Aw don't give up your lovely four bedder! Are you happy there and with the community? If not perhaps pop it on the market with the hope of moving? I'm sure the school isn't that bad. I find I blow things totally out of proportion rather than just making the best of things and perhaps this is what you're doing? Getting involved with the school when the children go there could be the answer.

Is your local school good or not?

Is it really your only objection that if they go there your children will be mixing with new immigrants and poor children?

"Choosing a school that is going to provide your child with the best possible learning environment"

ie - one that has as few poor or foreign children in as possible is nothing whatsoever to do with racism..

Come on - tell it like it is.

So when you're looking at a school, ignore the ofsted report. Ask about how many children have free school dinners, and are from immigrant families.

If it's ok to want to send your child to a school with mostly middle-class kids, then it's fine to openly ask questions like this when you're looking around surely?

I think the OP said that the school they would definitely get was in special measures, so not looking that good.

Well, I agree totally with what you in laws said.

But once I'd visited our local school, which I'd presumed DS1 would attend, we quickly moved across town, so can understand why you are considering it. But it wasn't the only reason we moved. (We got him into our 1st choice anyway).

I don't think you are a snot...if you were you would stay in the big house and wouldn't contemplate living in a flat so your DC could access the education of your choice.

snob

No-one should ever have to accept that they have to compromise on their child's education, marriedinwhite.

Ever.

The lovely school that I taught in, which had mainly ESL pupils, was an inch away from special measures. Why? Because Ofsted only gives a newly arrived pupil from another country two years to become fluent in English. After two years, regardless of whether the child had a single of word of English upon entering the country, a child is expected to be performing at the same level as his or her peers. Of course most children have great English after two years but their spelling and grammar tend not to be at a level where they can achieve the same results as a child who's been speaking English all their life. Totally unfair and it means that a lot of schools with a high proportion of ESL pupils get a poor Ofsted rating on the basis of not great SAT results. Convenient for racists like the ones on this thread who can claim their child will be "held back" by these pupils. I hope you checked if the children in the school you want have any SEN OP you don't want them contaminating your child either.

I don't think people who worry about this issue are necessarily racist. I just think there is a lot of misinformation out there, leading to a lot of misconceptions about the impact of having EAL kids in the class.

Your MIL is completely right. Moving from a big house with a garden into a rented flat is drastic. Depriving your DDs of a garden is prima facie undesirable.

Now of course if your local primary is truly disastrous these drastic measures might be justified, but IMO very few primary schools are quite that bad - and you've probably got a choice of a couple of local schools if you're prepared to go on waiting lists or take up religion.

The ESL stuff is bullshit - it really doesn't work like that.

This attitude doesn't make you racist, just classist. Surely you wouldn't have any issues with sending your kids to a school with lots very rich foreign nationals who spoke perfect English. For what it is worth it, I would do exactly the same. In fact, we moved out of our previous house for a very similar reason.

Gardens are nice, but surely a good education is more important. It's not like you are short of big parks in London.

I would move my DC in a second. I'm not willing to have their education suffer. When English isn't the first language for many children in a class the teacher will naturally need to focus on those children disproportionetly to bring them up to the same basic standard.

I just wouldn't accept that for my child.