To be gutted by in-laws reaction to primary school decision

[Mindthegap007]

So, chatting to in-laws re future schools for DD1 (only 2 so early days, though August birthday so I think we need to be thinking about applications late next year) and mentioned we were seriously considering renting out our spacious 4-bed house in east London where local school is ok but usual challenges (high % kids english not first language etc) to much smaller property (2/3 bed flat probably, possibly with garden) in a nice part of north London where we know people and the schools are excellent. Fil said it was 'a bit desperate' and mil said we should consider fact that we will have '2 growing girls who will need space'. Yes, space is nice, but overall I feel a really good school is more important. Feel more disappointed/hurt than I probably should about this and not sure why. Think it's because they think I'm being a snob. Genuinely want my kids to be exposed to difference/diversity but not a expense of their education (that perennial dilemma). Probably overreacting as sleep deprived (dd2 6 months and still feeding through night) but really want to be supported in this decision rather than criticized. Btw, DP is sort of supportive but largely because he's so easygoing (I tend to make most of the decisions about most things!)

"Have you ever considered that if everyone stopped moving themselves to live within the catchment area for a 'better' schools, their local school would improve?"

Counting, I warned the OP that she'd get flamed for wanting a half-decent education for her child and that someone would ask that very question back at 14.07 :o

I'm only surprised it took so long for someone to pose it.

We chose our house because it was close to dd's fantastic school and we compromised on space (and other aspects of the house) in order to be in this catchment. So I do have some sympathy with the OP's way of thinking.

Having said that, I don't think a high proportion of ESL children is necessarily the sign of a bad school. DD's school has a very diverse and mobile school population, with lots of children who ate bilingual, but the school has been fantastic so far and she is making brilliant progress - the school seems to be exceptionally good at differentiating for the needs of different pupils. Yes, the turnover is quite high, and that does present some challenges, but on the plus side, dd now has penfriends in far-flung places like China, New Zealand and Nigeria.:)

The school has managed to create a very positive, aspirational culture and I think this is at least in part due to the fact that so many of the children come from positive, aspirational families - the fact that they have moved across the world for new opportunities is good evidence for this.

Ultimately, the OP needs to do whatever she and her DP feel is the best for her kids, but I would advise her to look at all options with a truly open mind before coming to any conclusions.

are bilingual

OP, what exactly is better about this other school you have in mind?

So does the ESL figure include bilingual children? .

Basically the school is much smaller (dd is shy and overwhelmed in large groups - though realize this might change by the time she starts school), has better ofsted (I know this not be all and end all) and seems to have great reputation for having good educational standards but within a warm, diverse, nurturing environment. Maybe don't know enough about our local schools to say definitely none of these have the same, but on basis of what we do know (reputation, other folks, ofsted) they don't. They may however on closer look be good enough.

Great to hear about your experience Magicmummy

You don't actually have to justify it or defend-just tell them and don't discuss further-they will get used to it.

Laquitar, most (not all) of the bilingual kids at dd's school do come from families where English is not spoken in the home. Some are bilingual on entry to the school, especially if they have been to nursery. All are bilingual by the time they leave. :)

Of course, not all bilingual kids are ESL. My dd is bilingual but has English as her first language.

Having a child at a school you are not happy with really upsets family life.

Research, research, research! Maybe volunteer at the school near you if possible- you would really see what its like then. Also bear in mind that its two years till your child starts school and a new head or significant change in staff would completely alter the place!

Good Luck!

You see if the figure includes bilingual children then it is a bit misleading imo as what parents like op fear (that they will held the class back) is not true. So a child who came into uk last month and is struggling with english is very different to a child born into uk and raised as bilingual. I'm not native english speaker but my children are fluent in english as they are in Spanish and in Greek, and my son is top in his class.

I thought the figure is only for truly ESL children, who need support with the english language.

I forgot to say we are in North London OP

YABU - my heart bleeds for you OP. Was someone mean to you and made you feel like a snob?

Maybe you are?

Do what you want to do re: your child's education but for gods sake, please don't ask people to pat you on the back.

You own a 4 bed house in London which is good enough now, but God forbid you actually have to mix with the locals and join the local community. So move to a smaller property where you can still tell yourself you are giving your child their wonderful diverse London upbringing, but with a better class of diversity.

Seriously - do what you want, but you sound like a complete snob to me.

Itsalljust... Hmmm. How do you know that OP isn't part of her community? DD is part of ours- dancing, brownies, primary school BUT that doesn't stop me having reservations about secondary school here. Fact is, some schools are better than others. Another fact - some places are nicer than others.

Laquitar, the stats do refer to "truly" ESL kids, in the sense that they only count kids who have a language other than English as a first language. However, this figure will include kids who speak English very well as a second language, as well as those who don't speak a word.

Hence my dd who is bilingual but counts English as her first language is not included in the stats, whereas her friend is bilingual in the same two languages but is included because the other language is the one she speaks primarily at home. Basically, it depends on how the parents and children report themselves.

I agree it's misleading if people assume that all ESL kids are complete beginners!

'it depends on how the parents and children report themselves'.

I agree. I imagine that the figures don't represent the real picture.

You need to do a lot more research before you make a decision like this. My son's school will look awful according to the next ofsted (new senior management team, high % SN children and free school meals, low achievement by some pupils). It borders the worst estate for miles but it's a lovely school and my DS is thriving there. I think at primary level the attitude of the staff and head and the feel of the school is more important than anything else.

Oh and toughen up. The inlaw's opinion means nothing. Mine rewrote their will to exclude us when we moved dd to an independent school. It could be worse .

I would never send my children to a school where the first language of the other children was not primarily English.

Too much time would be spent on trying to teach them the language as opposed to learning basic english and maths. It is a drain on teaching capabilities.

I agree it is in your best interest to move in order to give your children the best start in life.

I agree with Fabby and would move my children in a heartbeat if it meant them getting a better education. The school may well be lovely and have a nice 'feel', but I don't see how your children will be getting the best education possible if the teachers have to concentrate on overcoming the language barrier for the majority of pupils first, before they can deliver the subject material.

I would say that if you didn't want your Il's opinion, perhaps you shouldn't have brought the subject up with them.

I dont know if a move is the right thing for your family or not, at the end of the day that is your decision based on what you think is best.

But to say " but really want to be supported in this decision rather than criticized" makes it sound as if you are just upset because your inlaws dont agree with you. People are allowed to have different opinions from you (whether you take any notice or not is your business of course) and you sound as if you have taken the huff because they differ in their opinions.

The english as a second language part should not be a big concern, have a read of this weeks TES, good article explaining how those with alternative mother tongue out-perform the natives well before the end of primary.

Being in a flat (presumably with no garden ?) would be misery both for you and the children, the list of down-sides is massive, from where to store bikes, rabbit, childrens friends when they come to play etc etc.

Children are in school for around half their waking hours, the other half in home enviroment, could a balance be found, bit smaller house, bit better school ?

Can fully understand why relatives, particularly those who've through parenting would think down-sizing was not a good idea, to be so upset though I'm thinking you might be a bit unsure too ?

I agree with FABBYCHIC 100%.

Oh, and by the way, you are upset by your pils comments because you feel GUILTY

What utter shite that sentence is.

Why on Earth would the OP feel guilty for trying to get her children the best education she possibly can? Is it really that wrong that someone would want that for their children, even (shock, horror) if that meant moving from one culturally diverse area to another?

Is it ok that my children only have 3 non white children in their whole school, even though it's a local one, or does that make me borderline racist too?

How about the fact that many families from ethnic minorities actually prefer to stick to their own communities, hence the fact that there are pocketed areas where their are a high number of ESL children in the first place? Surely it's not too much to ask that an English child gets to share a playground with children with children that are predominantly speaking English?

Go ahead and flame me or call me racist if you like, but I'm not, and I'm not English either.

Yes it makes you racist

Even taking tax, etc into account, surely a 4 bed house in east london out over the olympic season is a rental gold mine?