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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think it's not "men" who are the problem...

102 replies

TheFlyingOnion · 26/08/2011 11:23

inspired by many threads recently, but mostly in the "Relationships" topic...

I read so many statements along the lines of "men always put themselves first", "what do you expect, men always want...." etc etc.

AIBU to think its not MEN that are the problem, its THIS man! MEN don't always put themselves first, THIS man is putting himself first, MEN don't always leave the children stuff to the wives, THIS man does!!

If any man ever wrote "oh, women ALWAYS etc etc" I think we would be up in arms, no?

Let's get some perspective and admit that SOME men are wrong un's but this does not mean that ALL men should be tarred with the same brush.

I think I'm probably not BU, but I will ask anyway, AIBU?

OP posts:
carminagoesprimal · 26/08/2011 13:01

I would not choose a life partner based on his ability to shop and clean no -
I've had some truely awful gifts from my dh but he tries his best and that's all he can do - gift buying is not a quality I care much about tbh - it wouldn't be in my top 20 'great character traits' that's for sure.
& shared housework is something you get to grips with once you're married - he's a bit useless at it and I quite like it so I do the majority - as long as we're both happy then that's ok. Every relationship is unique - we don't do things because a book told us to.

MarshaBrady · 26/08/2011 13:03

I don't think it even matters how individual couples split things.

It's the lazy generalisation that is crap. Men are selfish, a man will treat you badly. Or even men! followed by a sigh

It is a good idea not to pass all that stuff on.

Pagwatch · 26/08/2011 13:07

Actually I find my dhs ability to understand what constitute a fantastic gift very sexy.
It speaks to his desire to please me.

mummymccar · 26/08/2011 13:10

I really hate these statements too. I've had a really rough year and through it all DP has been absolutely fantastic.
However, I have a friend who says 'all men...etc' and it used to really drive me crazy until I realised that actually all the men in her life had treated her really badly since she was a little girl. So in her experience it is easy to generalise & I can understand why she does it. It still doesn't mean I agree with it, but I can see why she does it. That excuse doesn't apply to all women who make that statement though and I think most do just generalise for convenience.

carminagoesprimal · 26/08/2011 13:11

My dh brings me home a packet of peanut M&M's every night - that's sexy.

seeker · 26/08/2011 13:14

"I'm not sure I'd find a man who could clean and shop for gifts particularly sexy if I'm honest - looks and personality are what most people fall in love with - his ability to flick a duster around and buy a nice card for his mother wouldn't impress me at all."

But the compete real or pretended inability to do those things must be a massive turn off to any sensible woman!

JosieRosie · 26/08/2011 13:15

Great thread! Absolutely agree that it's not the feminists who will come out with this sort of rubbish (speaking as a feminist myself Smile). I work in a virtually-all female environment and hear this kind of sexist nonsense all the time about how 'useless' men are and they are 'all the same'. My mother is fond of describing them as 'a different breed' It makes me Angry.

I have a colleague who does everything but wipe her husband's bum for him, including phoning up to make GP, dentist, eye test appointment for him like he's a child Shock I know she wouldn't have it any other way and wouldn't think he was a 'real man' if he did these things for himself. Also drives me insane when women scoff and roll their eyes anytime paternity leave is mentioned, accompanied by comments like 'oh I couldn't wait for him to go back to work so we could get into a routine!'. FFS Sad Angry

JosieRosie · 26/08/2011 13:16

Smile at carmina - that's lovely!

Empusa · 26/08/2011 13:17

"But the compete real or pretended inability to do those things must be a massive turn off to any sensible woman!"

You'd think so wouldn't you? To me it would feel like dating a small child, I want a lover not an overgrown baby!

Anniegetyourgun · 26/08/2011 13:18

As a lazy mother of four able sons I'm darned if I let them get away with being less capable than me! They are not only all better at cooking but I very rarely have to put in a toilet roll as someone else has nearly always noticed it first. And DS2 is the shopping guru, he always knows what we've run out of. There are some differences I've noticed with men's and women's emotional reactions to things, as a generality (though exceptions always exist), but their ability to engage with responsibility is not gender based; any more than women are all helpless creatures who need a big strong man to earn the money, fill in the tax forms and remove spiders from the bath. (My brother will confirm that SIL is the spider wrangler chez eux.)

And then the "all men cheat" thing... excuse me, but who are these men cheating with? More often than not, with a woman. If women don't cheat, then either there are a massive number of spare single women floating around or just a few who are extremely busy.

However, I do think sometimes people drag the "you wouldn't say that if the OP were a man" thing where it doesn't necessarily fit. A prime example being the current thread about the husband wanting his wife to have an abortion. That situation never could be the other way round, because whatever else men can and can't do, barring some medical miracle they don't gestate.

Pagwatch · 26/08/2011 13:19

M&Ms every night is sexy.
Grin
Dh brings me a cup of coffee every morning. Ditto.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if an individual man is a bit crap at choosing. It is the thought.

I personally hate the threads where some lazy fuck of a man has not even bothered with a birthday card and the op is upset. Some tosser always turns up calling the op a princess and going on about how their dh never gives them presents because men are crap at gifts.
no they aren't . Your dh and the ops dp. But not all men

exoticfruits · 26/08/2011 13:24

I think that I must be very prosaic but it would put me off completely if they couldn't cook, clean, sew on a button etc. The same way that I wouldn't have married a fussy eater-it would drive me insane.
When mine were little I could just walk out of the front door and leave him to it. He may have done it a different way but he didn't need a list of instructions-they were his DCs-he wasn't the babysitter.

I also blame mothers. They are the ones who should have DCs doing things for themselves from an early age. Start a thread on here about 4yr old setting the table and plenty of people will say 'let them be DCs' and then you get onto the fact that they don't trust a 9yr old to boil a kettle or stay at home for 10mins on their own-because they can't be trusted. Men carrry on through life being deemed incapable-quite handy for some of them!

wizbitwaffle · 26/08/2011 13:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

exoticfruits · 26/08/2011 13:27

His ability to buy a nice card for his mother would impress me.

Laquitar · 26/08/2011 13:31

I hate the 'joking' style coments like 'if i let my dh to change a nappy he will put in on baby's head', 'if i send dh to the supermarket he will buy flour instead of salt' ha ha ha... If it is true its not funny at all and if its not true then again its not funny and it says a lot about the person who 'jokes' in this way.

And i agree with the poster who said that it can make women who really suffer to think that this is the norm.

exoticfruits · 26/08/2011 13:38

Instead of joking she needs to say -'I'm going out all day Saturday-your turn for childcare'. He would do it. Some women just like to be the one in charge-it actually suits them to have him useless-in case he wants to rearrange the kitchen etc!

Original poster
TheFlyingOnion · 26/08/2011 13:43

Wow I wandered off for a little while and this discussion has really taken off! Thanks for your answers everyone...

I definitely agree with all the posters who have recognised the tendency of some women to treat their DH as if he were a DC, then they complain that he doesn't pick up after himself, do the washing up etc... It's your own fault ladies! You LET him be useless and he (shock horror!) WILL be useless! If I was with a guy who did all those annoying household jobs which I hate then of course, I would let him do them - and if he was a total doormat then no, I don't think I would have any respect for him. This is the situation that you create.

I have a fairly new DP and I have been very careful (after previous mistakes) NOT to fall into a pattern where I do all the "women's work". After all, he coped on his own for 40 odd years, he really doesn't need me to tidy up after him...

You get the man you are prepared to put up with, imo. If you have a lazy bastard DH who never helps you out, it is because you have allowed him to be that way, for whatever reason (poor role models etc).

OP posts:
Original poster
TheFlyingOnion · 26/08/2011 13:45

I agree exoticfruits, I think some women feel "powerful" because the household "can't run without them". Rather misguided imho.

OP posts:
FreudianSlipper · 26/08/2011 13:45

reading this thread most on here agree that they dislike the men can not do anything, men are selfish bastards blah blah but so much blame is being placed on women

if a women were lazy her husband was running aroudn her doing everything and he was moaning i suspect many who are blaming women for allowing her husband to be lazy would also be sympathetic towards him

society creates this image that men are incapable, look at advertising, read childrens books our roles are set out very early on and they have only recently started changing. sadly some women becasue it may make them feel needed will use these lines, but many men are quite happy to go along with being treated like a child and the women bringing up their sons to be helpless do the fathers not have any influence in bringing up their own children or is it just easier to blame women

Original poster
TheFlyingOnion · 26/08/2011 13:48

whizbitwaffle I would like to also add that I am not in any way saying these men shouldn't be regarded as being responsible for their own actions, but why do the women they are with stick around?

And anyone who says "because I love him!" makes me want to do an

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 26/08/2011 13:52

It does tend to be the women who are over protective and do too much. It is women who take 8yr old boys into the ladies changing rooms-I expect that men just send 8yr old girls into the ladies alone. It is women who won't let 7yr olds have knives and chop onions-I expect that most men would (if they didn't mind gettting into trouble with DW!) I suspect it is largely women who think the house will burn down as soon as she leaves her 10yr old at home alone.
Some men don't let the men have any influence-they love the fact that DC wants mummy and cries when left with daddy (there are women who are likely to cry if DC says 'I love daddy best'! It is all to do with control and being needed IMO.

exoticfruits · 26/08/2011 13:53

Sorry-some women don't let men......it should have read.

FreudianSlipper · 26/08/2011 13:58

and the father is incapable of having an influence on his own childs upbringing, or its easier not to bother and have a quiet life

wizbitwaffle · 26/08/2011 14:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
TheFlyingOnion · 26/08/2011 14:13

am nodding like mad at your post Whizbit

OP posts: