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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

The God Delusion

439 replies

YummyHoney · 18/08/2011 19:26

In thinking that Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion should be compulsory reading for all secondary school children?

Not only would it put paid to all the religious nonsense some parents spout, it would also put an end to a lot of wars and violence in the world.

OP posts:
mayorquimby · 18/08/2011 21:40

"it would also put an end to a lot of wars and violence in the world."

Probably kill off a fair chunk of the charities and relief of poverty too.

TrillianAstra · 18/08/2011 21:42

Telling a child that unless they do as they are told that when they die they will go to a very bad place forever?

Telling a child that if they even think bad things they will go to the bad place forever?

Telling a child that their friend (who appears to have done no wrong but whose parents are of a different religion, or even a different bit of the same religion) will go to a very bad place forever?

Pretty damn unpleasant. Abusive? Depends how much you dial that down and talk about how lovely and nice it is for people who do do as they are told and think as they are told.

(playing Devil's Advocate here, but it's not a baseless argument)

rockinhippy · 18/08/2011 21:43

Ditto what pointy said - & yes have read it many moons ago - I found it a pretty annoying read if I remember correctly

so yes YABVVVU

NotADudeExactly · 18/08/2011 21:49

I see what you're saying re the abuse thing - but what about the fact that parents who indoctrinate their kids actually believe this stuff? I guess as far as they are concerned, they are sharing something beautiful and important with their children. And they would presumably be telling them all these things in the belief that they are doing something good for their kids. You and I happen to disagree. I still find it unnecessarily emotive to bring child abuse into the debate though.

NotADudeExactly · 18/08/2011 21:53

AnyFule: Yeah, I'd actually agree with the spokespeople for atheism thing.

From a PR perspective, I'd really prefer some less smug people than RD, though. Some seriously likeable types, you know.

I'm not a royalist but if I were I'd also not want to make Prince Phillip my royal spokesmodel. :o

boudiccasSideKick · 18/08/2011 21:56

Sorry havent read anything much on here. Like the god threads though being an atheist. My theory is....

Religion was a way to "control vast populations before media was introduced"

Man made shite!

boudiccasSideKick · 18/08/2011 21:58

MAN is capitals too... "we must be god fearing" what a load of bollox! a whole load of clap trap invented by MEN to control! lol

AnyFuleKno · 18/08/2011 22:06

Other well known atheists:
Derren Brown
Tim Minchin
David Baddiel (I think)
Ben Goldacre
...

NotADudeExactly · 18/08/2011 22:17

Didn't know Ben Goldacre was an atheist. I like the way he writes, though.

My favourite atheist ever is Emma Goldman. but she's a) dead and b) maybe a bit too much of a radical anarchist for most people's tastes.

Does Stephen Hawking count? I'm not sure if he's on the record as being atheist, but he certainly seems to give the impression in Grand Designs.

TrillianAstra · 18/08/2011 22:18

Some people who sexually abuse children believe that they have a loving relationship with those children.

I'm not saying it's the same, but the argument of "believing it" does not excuse abuse. (if it is abuse)

Tyr · 18/08/2011 22:18

I think Hitchins' "God is not great" is a better read as a counterbalance to religion. If there is any teaching of religion in schools (we're stuck with it for the time being) atheism should be taught alongside it.
Dawkins is rather smug but he still makes some valid points. He should be read.

twinklytroll · 18/08/2011 22:20

I have nothing against Dawkins being read but I think the God Delusion is not actually well written and there are much better works that could be read which could present an athiest view.

AnyFuleKno · 18/08/2011 22:21

Stephen Hawking Definitely does count, I reckon

fluffles · 18/08/2011 22:23

Douglas Adams - v. famous atheist.

and i can only assume terry pratchett is too.??

Shoutymomma · 18/08/2011 22:23

Love the lovely Tim Minchin and if you want to make kids do something, maybe factor this into carol services:

Chynah · 18/08/2011 22:27

Sory going back a few pages here but re Dawkins:

No. It's not well written or researched and does not stand up well to criticism.

Errr Think this statement could definitely be applied to the bible.

Desiderata · 18/08/2011 22:31

Like most people, I am baffled by religion.

In that spirit, Mr Dawkins is a victim of his own theory. Why denounce what most ordinary people don't believe in in the first place?

It is almost a case of the lady doth protest too much.

Shoutymomma · 18/08/2011 22:32

But Chynah, the bibble wasn't written, it was delivered to earth on a fluffly cloud.

Tyr · 18/08/2011 22:35

We don't know if it was delivered to earth on a fluffy cloud but, if it was, this might explain how...

richarddawkins.net/articles/535

NotADudeExactly · 18/08/2011 22:38

Hmm, Desiderata, I think that is really only true of a fairly narrow section of society located predominantly in Western Europe. In the majority of other places and in some segments of society even here religion is very alive and well indeed.

One of my issues with Dawkins is, though, that he very much appears to be the type of person who'd appeal mostly to people who are already part of this demographic. I.e. I can't see my MIL, an Arab Muslim woman with only rudimentary education, responding to him well.

As stated before, though: for all my issues with Dawkins I still think that he's fundamentally right about most of what he says.

Desiderata · 18/08/2011 22:46

Yes, it is not rife in Western Europe because capitalism has taken its place.

Faith has proven somewhat essential over the generations. It is a mechanism by which a person without a pot to piss in can get through the day.

In Western Europe, having an extra £500 on your credit card amounts to the same thing.

QueenOfAllBiscuitsandMuffins · 19/08/2011 08:05

"Errr Think this statement could definitely be applied to the bible."

Actually you would be surprised about how much of the bible is probably true just seen from the perspective of the time. Just take something like the loaves and fish story, it's probable that people were just not wanting to share their food it's only when food started to be distributed that the ordinary person got theres out to share as well.

Shoutymomma · 19/08/2011 08:14

All works of fiction have facts in them. Doesn't make the story real.

PlentyOfPubgardens · 19/08/2011 08:21

YABU but only because it's nowhere near the best book on the subject. I found the God Delusion a bit of a pointless rant. This book by Daniel C Dennett is much more useful. Its message is not just Dawkins' 'they're all wrong!', Dennett looks at why and how religion could have evolved and how it has aided our survival in spite of it being bollocks. It's a much more reasonable read.

Dawkins' other books though would make excellent set texts for the biology curriculum. I'm frequently amazed by people's ignorance about how evolution actually works - it's no wonder so many still turn to superstition.

Morloth · 19/08/2011 08:26

I don't know about compulsory, but I have no objection to it being chucked in during RE.

Tell you what should be compulsory is 'Taking Charge of Your Fertility' by Toni Weschler preferably for boys and girls but even just girls would be good.