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Original poster

The God Delusion

439 replies

YummyHoney · 18/08/2011 19:26

In thinking that Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion should be compulsory reading for all secondary school children?

Not only would it put paid to all the religious nonsense some parents spout, it would also put an end to a lot of wars and violence in the world.

OP posts:
TimothyTheDog · 20/08/2011 02:54

Not only would it put paid to all the religious nonsense some parents spout

Um, I believe we have freedom of speech in this country YummyHoney. I can spout "religious nonsense" if I want to! You also have the right to disagree with me of course.

Seriously, I wouldn't wish to force your children to read the Bible so why would you force mine to read The God Delusion?

Truckrelented · 20/08/2011 08:43

Favourite Dawkins clip.

ThePosieParker · 20/08/2011 09:10

I have a feeling Christianity is a loads of rubbish, actually not a feeling...I know it is. It makes no sense has too many references that rely on the time it was written, for example gender, and so cannot possibly be true. Maybe I would give it a little more credibility if Jesus was a woman?

Corvax · 20/08/2011 09:13

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Truckrelented · 20/08/2011 09:18

Who has studied all the religions and decided christianity is the right one?

To pinch Dawkins' argument

If you're from India you're likely to be a Hindu, if you were born in Ancient Greece you'd worship Zeus. Because people are born in the UK at this time they are likely to be Christians.

ThePosieParker · 20/08/2011 09:25

Cannot be proven either way? So we believe in something unless it's proven to be wrong? Fairies at the bottom of the garden? Pixies? If you can prove that they don't exist.....

Completely shit for women too.

Corvax · 20/08/2011 09:47

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sunshineandbooks · 20/08/2011 09:50

I really liked the God Delusion, but then he speaking to the converted TBH Wink - I think I might have found him rather offensive had I strong religious convictions.

Although I am an atheist I don't have a problem with people who have faith, and I have even been known to help out in charity events raising money for the local church. Any discussion about the influence of Christianity in the UK is very difficult because a huge part of it is tied up with our culture and has become largely secular in nature even though it has derived from religious customs. Christmas, for example.

There have been a few works published recently showing how belief in something is an intrinsic part of the human psyche. Religion is never going to go away, whether it's belief in God, the power of crystal healing, or simply the cult of celebrity. I'd prefer to let people make their own choices about it, while at the same time ensuring all our children are taught the value of critical thinking and removing religious influence from our state institutions.

Original poster
YummyHoney · 20/08/2011 09:57

IMO people who believe in any sort of prophet should not even be allowed to vote. It's up there with Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny - not that I can prove it of course Grin. IMO, it shows a serious lack of ability to think reasonably and logically.... and I'm talking about all religions here, not just Christianity.

Let the roasting commence......

OP posts:
Corvax · 20/08/2011 10:17

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NotJustKangaskhan · 20/08/2011 10:49

Corvax There were several female prophets within Judaism - Sarah (who is considered a greater prophet than Abraham), Miriam, Hannah, Abigail, Devorah, Esther, Huldah just to name a few. And women within Judaism have always had a soul (Christianity has debated this point, but they blame Eve for the Fall, whereas Judaism tends to blame Adam more).

The reason anyone claiming to be a Jewish prophet in 0 CE would be daft is that the era of prophecy within Judaism had ended long before that point. The oppression under the Romans and the common knowledge within the Judaic community that there would be no more prophets made the people look for the Moshiach, those claiming to be so (or having it claimed for them) were pretty much running amok at that time until the Bar Korbach revolt and there were women among those numbers. None of them passed the test, so they were all either false or failed within the eyes of Judaism, but none failed purely due to gender though.

OP If one book convinced a person of a philosophical point, I would be concerned about that person's critical thinking skills. Include the book in a far wider curriculum of books (I think Russell would be more convincing on the atheist front, personally, and I would include the great debate of Barcelona) of varying points of view to be critically analysed and discussed would give a far stronger education and backing to any point of view the person ends up with. One book won't stop wars either, again more critical thinking skills and ability to appreciate a wide range of views (and creating technology/lifestyles to overcome resource shortages) would be a far better step.

Corvax · 20/08/2011 11:01

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Whatmeworry · 20/08/2011 11:14

.

pigletmania · 20/08/2011 11:17

yummyhoney what makes you think that god does not exist! Just because you don't believe it, does not make it false. Yes its good for children to know about both theories, and to make their own decision.

Whatmeworry · 20/08/2011 11:18

Oops re above post. Was writing that the increasing body of evidence points to humans inventing God and not the other way round, but it also points to the reason that religion succeeded evolutionarily is that those societies were more stable.

Interested that Dawkins as an evolutionary scientist who invented the theory that explains religious transfer through generations tends to focus on former and ignore latter issues in his work.

(I'm agnostic btw, but am curious about his selective view on evolutionary anthropology given his background)

Whatmeworry · 20/08/2011 11:19

Mind you shouldn't be surprised - apostles for an ideal always ignore any contrary evidence.

Corvax · 20/08/2011 11:24

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onagar · 20/08/2011 12:03

We'd still have wars - the OP is wrong about that. Though it would stop the ones that depend on the others being the wrong religion of course so would be a help.

Faith has proven somewhat essential over the generations. It is a mechanism by which a person without a pot to piss in can get through the day.

It is also a mechanism by which the poor can be made content to stay poor and keep them in their place.

its good for children to know about both theories, and to make their own decision.

Believing in god is not a theory at all. Nor for that matter is atheism. Atheism simply points out that believing in god is not a valid theory since it lacks any evidence whatsoever.

A theory is part of a logical process by which facts and their effects can be examined and considered. A hypothesis can include speculation that some other facts might be true, but only on a temporary basis and you are not supposed to believe them. Just test to see if they are true.

If I suddenly say "Hey in Siibera in the northern bit next to a tall tree there is a rock and under it is a cheese sandwich which was put there by the lixard that made the world" that isn't a theory. It's just something I made up without any basis in observed reality.

amicissima · 20/08/2011 12:23

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Red2011 · 20/08/2011 12:37

If that is to be read in schools then so should the Koran, the Bible, and other well-known religious texts, along with information on Kabbalah, Paganism and Satanism.....
I don't believe in 'inflicting' any belief system on anyone, child or adult. I was brought up C of E but now pagan. Hubby is agnostic. We have already been tutted at for not christening baby!

onagar · 20/08/2011 12:45

Red2011, err some of those already are read in schools. Which is kinda the point.

PortBlacksandIsLovelyInAutumn · 20/08/2011 12:56

I can't be doing with the smug 'religious folk are idiots and everything woo even liking a bit of aromatherapy means you are pathetic' atheism either (and i would describe myself as an atheist agnostic with pagan leanings Grin).

It's not just Dawkins, Richard Wiseman and even someone like Tim Minchin go on and on so much i've had to stop following the last two on twitter ... it almost sounds like they are protesting too much Wink

Red2011 · 20/08/2011 15:08

Yes, point taken onagar, but are they ALL read in the same schools - kind of compare/contrast? Most religions are essentially a moral code which has been expanded on and tailored to suit a certain people many, many years ago.

Dawkins, Wiseman and even Tim Minchin (BTW - phwoar!) are only expressing an opinion but yes, it can go too far.
As long as nobody is being brainwashed, and as long as children are advised that this is something some people believe.....rather than being told that this 'truth' is the 'only truth'.

cabalamat · 20/08/2011 20:38

pointythings: "I think Dawkins, as a militant atheist, is in his own way as bad as any religious fanatic."

Yes, because Dawkins is always urging his followers to fly planes into buildings, kill gays, invade other people's countries, etc.

Original poster
YummyHoney · 20/08/2011 21:33

I have been surprised by posters' view on Dawkins. My take on him is that he is not telling anyone to believe, or not believe, but merely expounding his thoughts on the subject.

When I read it I thought here's someone who has managed to articulate my thoughts on a lot of stuff.... that's all.

I don't think he's trying to brainwash anyone..... merely asking people to really think about what 'God' would have to be if 'God' existed.

OP posts: