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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think a 14 month sentence for passing on herpes is thin end of wedge?

235 replies

Cheria · 18/08/2011 12:12

This article has really annoyed me. Herpes is a common virus. Her ex- boyfriend denied passing it on, and lied so is a twunt, of course, but jailing him for 14 months?

With all the STDs tehre are now, some of which are really serious, is this not the thin end of the wedge? Herpes, for me, is a nuisance, but there is no way I would want the person who gave it me to go to jail. It's not AIDS FFS.

Suing someone over this is just opening the way for so many revenge cases. It's worrying that the judicial system is wasting time on this. Disclaimer: if he had knowingly infected her with AIDS it would be a different story.

OP posts:
TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 18/08/2011 12:43

You base many court cases on exactly that, though. Many times there is no cctv, independant witness, written proof...

both parties give evidence and it is up to the judge / jury to decide what they think is the truth.

someone threatening and verbally abusing someone is exactly the same. If there are no witnesses and no independent proof - it is one person's word against another's. And it is accepted. As it should be.

minipie · 18/08/2011 12:44

"Her word against his though. You can't base a court case on what someone said to another during a domestic."

Uh, court cases are frequently based on what one person said to another. It all comes down to who the judge believes. In this case, it appears he believed her.

If someone doesn't know they have a disease and accidentally passes it on to their partner, that is very different from if they know they have the disease, don't tell their partner and have sex anyway.

TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 18/08/2011 12:44

My own disclaimer Grin - I am not a legal bod and base much of it on a court case of my own where it came down to my word v their word!

(I won)

minipie · 18/08/2011 12:45

cross posted TheMagnificent

GnocchiGnocchiWhosThere · 18/08/2011 12:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Birdsgottafly · 18/08/2011 12:49

You cannot pass on AIDS, only HIV, AIDS develops when there is no access to anti-retroviral medication, which there is in the UK.

Herpes is in your system forever, like HIV, and can stop you from having a sex life, HIV doesn't, so the passing of both viruses in the UK should be treated in the same way, if it has been decided to leglislate against knowingly infecting someone.

OhdearNigel · 18/08/2011 12:49

"I don't know whether 14 months is a normal sentence for ABH."

It is very unusual for someone to get this length of custody for an ABH and custody is hardly ever given to an offender that does not have a considerable PNC record involving a number of similar offences. Therefore my opinion of the matter is that there is a lot more to it than has been reported.
You might expect someone to be given 14 months for breaking an arm (GBH), however that injury will mend in time; this girl will have herpes for the rest of her life.

LaitAuChocolat · 18/08/2011 12:49

This case has done nothing but strengthen the stigma surrounding herpes IMO. What he did was wrong but a prison sentence?

Original poster
Cheria · 18/08/2011 12:50

Vivian again that's due to education. Could have been parent or sitter with a coldsore who transmitted while changing a nappy and it laid dormant. Maybe she had a coldsore and didn't realise that she could infect herself. Not saying it is her fault, or anyone else's, but stigmatising the illness doesn't make people aware of it.

I only learned that coldsores were herpes when I moved to France and they refer to them as a bouton d'herpes. (And in general are much more open about herpes so people know how to avoid transmission).

OP posts:
minipie · 18/08/2011 12:54

OhdearNigel

Thanks. Perhaps my comparison was not accurate then. If breaking an arm is GBH then I'd certainly say that knowingly giving someone herpes is GBH.

I'm not sure what to class knowingly giving someone AIDS as in that case. Still GBH but worse? Attempted murder...?

OhdearNigel · 18/08/2011 12:54

"Her word against his though. You can't base a court case on what someone said to another during a domestic"#

Yes you can and it happens day in, day out. The majority of DV cases and rapes are 1 on 1 allegations. They still go to court and many are sucessfully convicted.

OhdearNigel · 18/08/2011 12:58

"I'm not sure what to class knowingly giving someone AIDS as in that case. Still GBH but worse? Attempted murder...?"

S20 GBH with intent. Carries a potential life sentence. My husband dealt with someone who was deliberately infecting women with HIV, sadly he died before the matter came to court.

TandB · 18/08/2011 12:59

I wouldn't imagine that her word was the sole evidence. I would imagine that his medical records showed that he was aware of it at the time that he was having unprotected sex with her.

That would be pretty hard to get round.

TandB · 18/08/2011 12:59

Anyway, he pleaded guilty.

TandB · 18/08/2011 13:00

Minor point, Nigel - S.20 is reckless GBH or wounding. It is S.18 that is the intentional offence.

EricNorthmansMistressOfPotions · 18/08/2011 13:02

It doesn't specify whether he had had symptoms of herpes before. Presumably he had, as his solicitor would have found this out, but on face value he could have been innocent - you can't pick up herpes in a sexual health screen and 50% of carriers never have a symptom. A good friend of mine picked it up from someone she slept with, he swore blind that he didn't have it, although it had been two years since she slept with someone, he was the second person she had slept with ever, and she had a very nasty, and clearly first, outbreak days after sleeping with him. It was very difficult for her that he never took responsibility for it, but I believe that he was probably a carrier.

Remember that herpes can also mean type one, which is facial cold sores. I have type one passed on from H who has had coldsores since a young child. He never warned me about them (didn't occur to him) so in theory he knowingly infected me.......

BimboNo5 · 18/08/2011 13:03

People who glass others in pubs dont even get this kind of sentence and that leaves life long physical and emotional scars (been there). Its OTT imho.

OhdearNigel · 18/08/2011 13:04

"Minor point, Nigel - S.20 is reckless GBH or wounding. It is S.18 that is the intentional offence."

Lol ! Knew I should have checked before posting, I always get confused between those 2 sections

ThePosieParker · 18/08/2011 13:05

I know someone who had Chlamydia and didn't tell his gf, he cheated on her, she's now single (after ten yrs with him) and infertile.

Knowingly passing something on is disgusting, immoral and should be criminal.

Catslikehats · 18/08/2011 13:06

People that knowingly infect other people with a serious disease ought to be punished.

I think 14mths is perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

EricNorthmansMistressOfPotions · 18/08/2011 13:07

Birdsgottafly

Herpes is in your system forever, like HIV, and can stop you from having a sex life, HIV doesn't, so the passing of both viruses in the UK should be treated in the same way,

Rubbish. Herpes causes me a couple of days of itchy fanny once every few months. It's no worse than thrush. I can also take aciclovir daily if I wish which supresses the virus meaning no symptoms. It does not have to affect your sex life in the least! By taking aciclovir I would protect any partner from contracting it from me as the virus cannot shed, and in any case it's only contagious during an outbreak and for 10 days after. That is about 2 weeks in a 4 month period in my case.

It's really unfair and unhelpful to equate herpes with HIV. Given that 75% of the UK pop has either facial or genital herpes in their body I'd say it's pretty impossible to avoid picking it up somewhere - and plenty of you lot clucthing your pearls and yelling 'assault' probably carry the virus.

Original poster
Cheria · 18/08/2011 13:08

Maybe he knew he was a carrier, but didn't deliberately infect her. Usually when you're not having a flare up you don't pass it on.

Anyway, whether or not he pleaded guilty... isn't 14 months a bit OTT? And, is there not a risk of this opening the floodgates? AND would he have got that sentence for passing on a coldsore on the mouth?

OP posts:
Catslikehats · 18/08/2011 13:09

Bimbo - lots of people who glass people in pubs do in fact get an awful lot more than 14 mths.

Original poster
Cheria · 18/08/2011 13:10

Thank you EricNorth there are so many misconceptions about this infection and this case is making it worse. Equating passing on herpes to HIV, or even Chlamydia which is far more dangerous if not treated, is irresponsible.

Same as treating it as GBH. People get lower sentences for all kinds of assaults.

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 18/08/2011 13:11

Eric- i only know men who have it and they have had trouble finding partners who will take 'the chance' with them, you may have been lucky other people are not.

I support people with HIV and other illnessess, it isn't helpful to them to have HIV and AIDS mixed up.

"Offences against the person" act contains different sections to allow for all offences to be covered, including the transmission of infectious diseases, there was a landmark case in 2003.