To be cross with my nanny?

[Maria101]

I have my own internet business and work from home. I have a part time nanny who comes three days a week to look after my 1-year-old. She's generally great, however, at the start of the summer holidays she mentioned (didn't really ask) she might have to bring her 6-year-old son along some days. Tbh I didn't mind this, as she made it sound like an occasional thing, and my daughter likes him and likes having other children around.

However, she started bringing him every single time. During my baby's nap times instead of cleaning the bottles/high chair, making meals etc, like she did before, she would sit and read to him on my sofa while I was working in the next room. Also, all their activities would involve going to the park etc, instead of going to playgroups (presumably because he would get bored). Other things bothered me, such as once my daughter messed her nappy just as the nanny arrived with her son, who wanted toast. She said to me, 'You deal with that (the nappy), while I make him (her son) some toast'. Stupidly I did, even though she had technically started work.

Last week I told her not to bring her son anymore because it's too distracting having him here in the house while I try to work. She was OK about it, and didn't bring him, but today I got a text at 8.30 (she's due here at 9) asking if she could bring him because her sister couldn't have him. She suggested picking my daughter up and taking her to her house. But surely this is childminding? Plus, I had purposefully left some jobs for her to do in nap time (make a shepherds pie). I said not to worry so now I don't have any childcare today.

I'm fuming. My main problems are: a) I don't want her son in my house when I'm trying to work, but equally I don't want my daughter out every single day (her initial solution to my finding her son too distracting). b) I want her to work during my daughter's nap times, and not play with her son or do her own housework (which she'd probably do if my daughter went to her house). c) she treats our arrangement like a casual agreement between friends, when I'm paying her to do a job. For example, there was no apology this morning for letting me down and making me work tonight after my daughter has gone to bed (if I don't work during the day it has to get done at some point).

Should I a) just cancel our contract and look for another childminder/nanny? Tackle it head on Monday morning and then have the awkwardness that would follow?

Sorry for the rant, but I'm furious! PS, I know part of this is my fault for being too laid back with her in the first place but for the most part she's a good nanny but she seems to be getting worse and taking the pi**.

to be honest I think you are a little to blame..I'm not being deliberately contentious, it's just that I'm a bit like you too. I expect my nanny to do her job the way I want her to but she's not telepathic and she sometimes doesn't live up to my expectations. That's more my fault than hers as I'm often too pussy footy to set out clear boundaries - and it's in my nature to err on the side of treading the path of least resistance and being nice uttering 'is that ok?' type of comments after I've asked her to do something.

I personally need to take my own advice and sit her down and re-establish some clear boundaries. In your case I might say 'You're a great nanny but having your son around every day hasn't really suited our situation and I want to keep you so we need to be a bit more open about our expectations'

There's a number of options....during holidays, a reduced rate to compensate for you having to fit in with her life (what would she do, for instance, if she worked somewhere where children were not allowed at all- she would have to pay for childcare) or ask her to find alternative childcare arrangements (holiday clubs etc) for her ds. You're not a free childcare service yourself so you need to let her know this gently.

I might also write a list of things that need to be done during the day - like cooking a pie, or whatever you've agreed is a reasonable part of her job.

Hope you get a good solution sorted.

Well I've had a nanny and I would not be happy if she suddenly decided to introduce our own children to the working relationship frankly. They do whatever is agreed upfront, mine used to cook the evening meal (except she couldn't cook so we gave up on that, but that's a different story).

It's like agreeing to drive the bus but then insisting you can only drive it if you can hook your car up to the back of it and dragging it along and stopping at different places because you wanted to pick up a haddock on the way!

OP I would sit the nanny down, without the son and have an adult conversation about your expectations. It may be that she has fallen into the trap of thinking you are friends. Friendly is good, friends is not, you are after all her employer and it's important to maintain that distance for both of you.

It may be that she has not properly addressed her childcare problems, can you agree to a stopgap solution till the end of the summer holidays but agree that he will not return after that and she needs to sort her childcare out (like you have)? If you absolutely can't have him there (and it's your right to refuse) she may well leave. But as you say, she's not doing what you need right now and there are other nannies.

Well I thought you were funny custardo!
I didn't realise nannies have to iron etc.
Hope pay reflects that.
Hope she does get time for cups of tea etc.
I CAN see your issue with her son coming over. It depends how much you want to keep her I suppose to how much lee way you give her.

Did you tell her not to bother coming today? This sounds more erm... casual. Do you pay as you go?

I don't get the 'it's the summer holidays - you should expect it' point of view. What the hell does every other working mum have to do during the holidays? Unless they have generous relatives who do it for free they have to pay for childcare!
The nanny can't do her job to the same standard when she is also caring for her own son. If you can give your job 100% while looking after a child then the OP wouldn't need a nanny in the first place!

Nobody can just take their child to work when they feel like it! And nobody should walk into someone else's home and start to make food for their own child.

Someone said the nanny's DS wouldn't be getting a good holiday - well, he'll get as good a holiday as anyone whose parents are working full time. It's not the OP's responsibility to give her nanny's DS a good holiday!

OP, your nanny is being really unreasonable and is seeing your relationship as one of friends rather than employer/employee. You need to speak to her in a formal meeting. Do you have a DH? If so, he should be there, too. You need to clarify that she can only bring her son in in an emergency (and by that I'd think once in a summer holiday.) There's no way you can be working properly when there's a 6 year old child running around.

She is pushing it isn't she. I feel for her but it should only be a one off arrangement. Feel even more for the poor boy.

What I dontvget is why you want her to bake you a shepards pie?

Custardo I have a filipino maid. Her 4 kids are at home thousands of miles away and she has lived with us for 2 years. In her last job she was physically and sexually abused by the teenage son of her British employers and they didn't give a shit. The wife punched her and broke her nose. She still prefers to work in the Middle East away from her family because OTHERWISE THEY WOULD STARVE AND HAVE NO ACCESS TO EDUCATION.

You do need to be clear about your expecations, and what you are happy with and what you aren't happy with. She won't guess, you need to give clear feedback rather than sighing and getting on with it while complaining in private.

You could, if you wanted, offer to change the terms of the contract so you pay her a reduced rate during the holidays acknowledging her son will always be there. If that's what you want, and you're happy with this. Maybe she'd be delighted with that.

To those who say cut her some slack, I think once or twice is fair enough, but not as a regular thing unless it's been agreed. Being a nanny is a job like any other. Employers have to behave like employers, and nannies have to behave like employees.

OP, you said earlier that you would renegotiate her pay if you had another child - I don't think that's usual (though you may of course have agreed it with her). Most of the time, you nanny for a family, rather than a particular number of children. I don't think most nannies would expect a pay rise if there were more children from the same family (nanny shares are a different issue).

Not read whole thread yet, but would imagine that you hire a nanny because you want them to look after your children. If you are happy with them looking after their own dc at the same time, you tend to go for more of a childminder situation, which is considerably cheaper and you don't have the same responsibilities for sorting out tax etc.

I think your nanny is taking the piss a bit. She seems to have forgotten that she is being paid to do a proper job, not a bit of ad hoc babysitting for a mate.

When I first began my career my elderly boss gave me this warning "Give even your best member of staff an inch and they will take a mile".

At the time I was very shocked, but this can easily happen if you do not set clear boundaries.

Does the nanny have a written contract?

It may be difficult to back track now after you have been so accomodating with her.

If she is a reasonable person, and you value her work, I would sit down with her and acknowledge the way you are feeling and try to establish new working practices.

If she does not try to meet you half way I would look for someone new.

She does appear to be taking the piss-but then she is being allowed to!

I would say if you are generally pleased with her & your son likes her then tell her what you will/will not accept when her childcare lets her down in future.

I'm a nanny/ housekeeper for a family and i too have had to take my 5yo in on occasion.
I think you just need to have a fairly firm chat with her, perhaps explain what needs to be done around the house when he does come and just go through her duties with her again. Perhaps also ask for notice of when she will be bringing him round, so that you can prepare a bit. I'm sure if you explain that you didn't realise it would be every day, she'll realise her mistake.
At 6 he should be more than capable of playing by himself while she gets her jobs done anyway. My DS just goes and plays in the garden or with some toys for a few hours. He knows that i'm at my place of work and that if he wants me, he has to take part in what we're doing.
It is really hard to find childcare during the holidays (as i'm sure you appreciate) and you said it yourself that you've been too laid back with her, so don't blame her too much for getting the wrong impression!

Mummalish, yes, I think that she should tell the nanny that ultimately there are consequences of her bringing her son into work. Not obviously in a nasty way or saying bring him in once more and I'll be sacked type way.

But I do think that in the course of the conversation with the nanny that she is going to have to have judging from this thread, I think she has to make it clear to the nanny why this is such a big deal because from what she has said it doesn't sound like her nanny appreciates how important it is that the OP is not disturbed directly or indirectly during her working hours.

custardo, normally i love you, but you're being a nob.

op, yanbu and i do think it's worth sitting down and discussing it. sounds like she is good, just over-stepped the boundaries a bit. and yes, it might be awkward for a bit but things will settle down again. and if they do get worse, then i'd think about finding someone new.

but i do think you have to give her a chance first.

I would take heed that you only have 2 more months before she has worked for you for a year, by which time she has A LOT more rights. You need to deal with the issues you have head on before she has been working for you a year, otherwise you could find yourself at a tribunal.

Maria, your nanny is not your friend or your acquaintance, she is your employee and you are her boss. You need to get over however uncomfortable you feel about this and start treating her as such. This doesn't mean obviously you should treat her like a slave, but in the same way that any good employer will treat you. This means being very aware of exactly what your employment contract says and also your rights and obligations as an employer.

If she worked for you in your internet business, would you let her call the shots? Do you let your customers call the shots? No? Then why are you doing so here? Most employees don't get to dictate the terms of their employment to their employer. In your situation, I would have issued a verbal warning for the nappy incident, I would have made it clear that yes, one off emergency care for her child is okay but anything more than that is unacceptable. Nursery duties are a standard part of nannying so I wouldn't be expecting her to leave a mess for me to clear up. On receiving this mornings text, I would have just said no if that's not what I wanted.

I wouldn't leave it a couple more weeks, I would actually seriously consider whether she is the nanny for you. Sit down and have a formal conversation on why you aren't satisfied with her. If things don't improve in the next month, I would find a new nanny. This is a lot easier to do in law if she's worked for you for less than a year. No matter how much your dd likes her or has bonded with her, there are some excellent nannies out there who your dd will get used to.

Custardo, why the implication that anyone with a nanny is a knobber? my fantastic (English) nanny is professionally qualified with many years of experience. She lives in with us so has no bills to pay but earns £26k pa (above the national average) plus xmas bonus and has 6 weeks of holidays. She drives a mercedes, her newspapers and mags are paid for and when she had a significant birthday she got 2 tickets to see her favourite artist at the O2. AFAIK she is happy and feels well treated and economically it means there is one less unemployed person in the UK. While she works for me looking after my dc (neither of whom is called Tarquin), it allows me to go out to do my work which keeps another 20 people employed.

What I want to know is, although it may not have been what you wanted when she offered to take your child to her house on that day, you told her not to bother thus leaving yourself without childcare. Why cut your nose off to spite your face? Sounds like you were being a bit awkward to make a point.

YANBU, but, it would be a shame to fall out over this if she is otherwise a good nanny. I would try and chat with her in person explaining in a very nice way the issues you have (presumably if doing those cleaning/cooking jobs in nap time are part of her duties then she is being pretty bad just not doing them to read to her DS - maybe very occasionally and this could be accepted but every day is not on ). Does she live near? It's just (and I may be completely wrong) when you say she goes to the park alot with her DS and your DC instead of toddler groups I must admit my first thoughts were is she just taking your DD to her house for that time. I do'nt think you should sack her outright, I say explain what you expect and how much you enjoy having her working etc (I remember at teacher training they told me do positive negative then positive) so she doesn't feel angry or resentful to you, which might make things get tricky. Good luck.

Should add, not that I think you should have been all happy clappy about her wanting to take her your child to hers, but it was the best offer you were going to get and would have meant you could have got on with work.

Have you posted on the Childcare board? Plenty of professional Nannies there to advise you on what is acceptable and what is not.

Personally speaking, the only incident that would irritate me in your position would be the nappy-changing one. I once attended a minded child's birthday party only for the mum to hand her younger child to me with the comment "Oh, he's filled his nappy. Change him, would you?"
And off I went , like a lemon, and did it. Fool, I was

You do realise that nannies are legally entitled to a break dont you?

(yes for many nannies, it is impossible to actually have this break that they are entitled to, often parents are AT work (ie not working at home) so can hardly leave the children and stop!)

YOU told her not to come in today, if no child care is such an issue you could have allowed her to bring her son, but of course you are not obliged to allow her.

Are you sure all the playgroups are even happening over the summer holiday? Almost all groups that i have been to (in 10 years of nannying) stop over the summer holidays. There are a few that dont stop, but most seem to in my experiance. (which is really really annoying when looking after babies / toddlers!!!!)

Your child is 1.... its the summer.... is it really that much of an issue if nanny takes your child out? There are lots of places that appeal to children who are 1 and 6. its not like she is (necessarily) tagging your daughter along with her son.... and for many people (with more than 1 child) manage to find fun activities that keep the older and younger ones happy.

Your DD messed her nappy just as nanny arrived.... ok.... these things happen but if they had only just through the door, you wernt exactly in the middle of anything and was taking 3 mins to change your childs nappy really worth making a big deal over? Also if she had just done it, she could presumabley have waited 2 mins for the toast (or yes, her son could have waited for 3 mins for his toast to go in the toaster )

YANBU to not want her son there every single time, and you are perfectly entitled to not allow him to come.
BUT i think you are making things into a much bigger deal than they need to be.
and yes she should have asked you about bringing her son, but perhaps she thought mentioning it was asking and there was slight problem with communication.
I think you are reading too much into all this actually.

And if you decide that under no circumstance can her son come with her, then you need to accept that if her childcare lets her down last min, she has no choice but to let you down too, or you could allow him to come as a one off.

Thats all part of employing a parent.

Reastie that positive-negative-positive thing is called a shit sandwich.

YES its the real custardo doing a real life parody of bonsoir.

those filipinos are two a penny doncha know