I don't agree with the MN feminists. AIBU?

[jennyvstheworld]

I consider myself an active proponent of equality of opportunity and a stern critic of discrimination... and yet I find that I can't identify with many of the viewpoints I encounter on the MN feminism page (and often say so). AIBU?

I haven't missed any salient points S&B I have however noticed that you're airbrushing the "Minority" abusers almost ignoring that they commit crime.

Only yesterday on the feminism board a poster remarked on there "Being reasons like DV" as a catalyst for Women who murder.

The radical Feminists undermine Women's rights because the majority think they are barking mad deluded.

Feck it, I am completely lost now

I fully understand the idea of protecting all children from sex they don't want or consent to but organic, you are coming across as the type that people had you pegged as. Rape is a male problem and they, by a vast majority, are the perpetrators. The fact that it is almost accepted that if a girl dresses like a 'slag', gets pissed and so on is asking for it is just the beginning of how women are blamed even when they're victims. More interesting is how male rape is worse, more emasculating and much harder for a man than a woman.

I think the problem is the fact that as feminists we focus on the women and their experiences.

there was a thread a couple of weeks ago about FGM and just about FGM. Soemone came on and started talking about male circumcision and how it was just as bad. I have yet to see on any of the many male circumcision threads that MN has, any attempt at derailment to focus the topic onto FGM. This is typical that you just can't focus on a women's issue without men's experiences being brought into the equation.

Sorry chickens, I've read all that back and I probably shouldn't have addressed my post to you! I think I may have become slightly lost myself between the two strands of the thread...

Even on this thread a certain poster asks the question..

"What's the obsession with vaginal sex?"

Surely most people went urgggh at that?

Rape has been shoehorned into a discussion that was highlighting the R&J law in Ireland.

I have had 6 (that I can think of) youth clients that have been charged and pleaded guilty/convicted of sexual assault/sex with a minor whilst under 16 themselves (I only actually dealt with one case the others I was aware it was on their record).

In all cases the sex was consensual (not obviously in the legal sense) In 5 cases the boy was from a criminal/undesirable family and it was seemingly a case of getting him for "something". In the 6th case the girl was pregnant and her parents made a complaint and very much drove a prosecution. The boy admitted the offence and was placed on the sex offenders register. The couple stayed together but it was very difficult for them as I recall.

I mention the above because I don't think it is common to prosecute, especially if you are a "nice" boy from a "nice" family but it clearly happens.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have a negative reaction to the vagina. Which is handy seeing as I own one!

Posieparker

Show me where I said that I condoned rape?

There should be stiffer sentencing for it in my opinion.

If you can find one post where I said/inferred that?

I'd be much obliged.

OG...that was me. Surely you understand women's motives for murdering their partners are different from men's. Same as most crime really. Of all the men killed in the DV arena, one third are killed by their victims of sustained abuse, one third are killed by another male and one third is all the rest.

Is that a little more clear?

I am not ignoring female perpetrators of any crime. I am simply pointing out that saying "but women do this too" does not diminish the significance of the fact that domestic violence or sexual abuse of children is mainly perpetrated by men.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat i think it depends on the topic whether men's experiences should be brought into the equation.

FGM is very different in magnitude than curcumcision, so for me curcumcision is not significantly relevant when discussing FGM, but looking at all forms of rape (m on f, m on m) is relevant when discussing rape.

OG....Erm show me where I said you did. But iot is rather [yawn] tiresome that you have to bring up a few of rare instances of women grooming young girls, when we both know men are trafficking girls and boys all around this country, so much so that we can't even guess numbers.

More stats and baseless rhetoric?

If Women kill Men they're excused and if Men kill Women they're animals?

It's more clear .

What do you think should happen to Women who kill Men?

Yet again Women are not to blame for murder.....you're doing Women no favours.

Do you agree with this statement?

StewieGriffinsMom Tue 16-Aug-11 14:36:39
I also think the obsession with vaginal sex is problematic

Actually organic the thread was about how MN feminists are raging harpies who hate men and are behaving completely outrageously by pointing out that actually women still get beaten up/raped/paid less/accused of lying and therefore feminism still has a lot of important work to do. I mean, we must be mad for getting cross about all that...

Sorry you are getting lost chickens. You've really engaged with this thread. I think the fact that so many different discussions are going on - all of which are liberally broken up with posts about why feminism is necessary/evil (depending on your viewpoint). the whole thread is fast-moving and difficult to follow. You're not alone in being

Sunshine

About 1300 child murders took place in the US last year. About 500 perpetrators were non-parents, roughly divided between men and women. Of the rest, only 30 (!) were fathers. In other words, mothers were more than 25 times more likely to kill their progeny than fathers. Yet somehow, men are viewed as being more dangerous to their children than women.

www.quebecoislibre.org/010203-9.htm

It's a myth that Men are the main abusers of children.

You're ignoring the possibility that Women are.

Take a look at the papers organic. There have been a few high-profile cases about women who have murdered their partners lately. They feature in the papers just as frequently as cases where women are killed by their male partners, despite the fact that men killing their partners is 4x more common.

If you look at articles about men killing women there is nearly always a lengthy explanation of why he was a good bloke who was under a lot of pressure or he had an affair and tipped him over the edge, etc. There is rarely any such attempt to explain a woman's crime.

A few?

I really despair and agree with the OP about why MN Feminists have such bad press.

Head in sand and ignore anything that doesn't tally with the borg mentality of the few vociferous haters.

OG[16.19]
pulling peoples posts out from elsewhere to try and prove youre point is bad form.

You talked about sexual abuse organic. You defined that we were talking about sexual abuse, so that's what I dealt with. I assumed you wanted to talk only about sexual abuse because it seemed a natural follow on from a discussion about under age sex and rape. In terms of sexual abuse men are overwhelmingly the main perpetrators.

Don't change the goalposts because you're being proven wrong.

Now agreed if you're talking about child abuse generally, the figures are quite different. I suggest you take a look at some proper research though rather than quoting from a personal blog written by someone who is not involved in the field and doesn't cite his references.

From what I've seen about child abuse generally it is difficult to know what's going on, not least because here int he UK we don't publish in-depth figures about it and have to rely on child protection statistics. Quite a lot of research based on this shows that women are more responsible for child abuse than men, but given that there are more women looking after children than men that isn't altogether surprising. Also, a lot of that abuse includes neglect and failure to protect (against the effects of witnessing male-perpetrated DV). Which isn't to diminish its seriousness in any way but simply to highlight how complex the situation is. Trying to take all these factors into account I think the general conclusion is that child abuse is actually committed 50/50 by either gender, but that female child abuse tends to be more psychological/emotional/neglect based while male abuse tends to be much more violent and/or sexual.

Gosh hasn't it been busy?

Unhide it Chickens, go on!

I only actually came in to say that from now on I think I'm going to use this little love whenever anyone is being pointlessly rude about the feminist section. It will defuse things nicely, like a sort of feminist specialist pombear/TWC/bat.

Ooh, I dunno. I've heard that you all chew up newbies for breakfast and plot the downfall of the penis