I don't agree with the MN feminists. AIBU?

[jennyvstheworld]

I consider myself an active proponent of equality of opportunity and a stern critic of discrimination... and yet I find that I can't identify with many of the viewpoints I encounter on the MN feminism page (and often say so). AIBU?

So let's say a boy of 15 becomes aroused when petting with a girl of 15, and finds himself against his better judgement persuaded to have sex by the girl, and due to a mixture of perhaps peer pressure, drunkenness, embarrassment, or whatever, he did so. And let's say he felt a bit confused and grubby and perhaps disappointed and used afterwards, and knew that he had been co-erced by the girl. Can he claim he was raped or violated? How would his story be perceived in law, and what would happen to the girl?

How likely do you think it would be that the girl makes a complaint? Bearing in mind she instigated it and she would have to undergo a medical examination and make a statement under oath for it to have any chance of going to court?

I was under the impression that in a lot of cases like Fellatio has outlined, it'd be the girls parents that made the complaint. Or is that toss?

Most cases of underage sex that are consensual (as in both parties agreed to it, not legally defined consent) never go anywhere. No one complains, no one demands an arrest and it doesn't go to court.

Overwhelmingly when people do press for action the victims are telling the truth. 94% in fact.

The legal age of consent was dreamed up to protect vulnerable underage people from horrific character assassination surrounding the issue of consent.

Thank you for that clarification, AyeRobot, I do believe that the stance taken by the law is that if two 15- year- olds have consensual sex- I stress the word consensual, it is in nobody's interests to prosecute. A stance I firmly agree with from a moral point of view.
I wouldn't say it were a good thing, though, but nor should they be prosecuted.

Would you force your daughter to undergo an vaginal examination just because she had underage sex?

Would any parent?

Unless they genuinely believed their daughter had been raped or the daughter had said she was raped.

Okay SAf you said school hours, how on earth is that a feminist issue? Every child has two parents, why not have many jobs that start and finish early.....so parents have a choice, not women, parents.

And yes, all prosecutions have to be deemed to be in the public interest, which is why few cases of underage sex ever go to court unless there are genuine reasons for assuming the act of sex involved coercion or force.

I confess my take on that has come from dodgy TV programmes and novels. So is probably toss.

Posie I though that's what SaF was saying - that if more jobs followed a flexible working pattern it would benefit everyone - men and women, parents and child-free.

That doesn't alter the fact that the current state of affairs penalises women with caring responsibilities more than men. There is still an assumption that it will be the woman's job that has to fit around school hours and the woman who will take time off for the child's dental appointment etc.

But that assumption is right because employers are twats. My DH got really told off when he took time off when DC4 was a few weeks old and I, and two other dcs, had dreadful D&V. I mean who else would look after a contagious family? I was still recovering from my 4th section too.

That sounds hideous, Maryz. How many convictions have there been?

But there was a thread on here a while back where a woman wanted to know if she had been violated or even raped because of exactly the scenario I outline above, when she was an innocent teenager, 15 or 16 IIRC. She didn't actually say NO. She was a bit too drunk. She felt awkward about making a fuss, didn't want to seem like a silly child. She allowed it to happen against her better judgement. So therefore it was consensual. And yet when she asked the question 'was I raped?' almost everyone who responded said 'YES'.

I just wondered what would happen to a boy who asked the same question.

Fellatio, I can't find it but I definitely recall a recent thread in which a male poster outlined almost exactly what you describe, and the whole thread responded with sympathy and compassion.

sunshine I think you have misunderstood my last post. I am asking what would happen if the boy wanted to make a complaint against the girl who instigated it. I said what if he wanted to claim he was raped or violated? What if he felt grubby afterwards?

Interesting though, that you mis-read it.

Sympathy and compassion is all very well, but can he have the girl prosecuted for sexual assault/rape or not? Because when the tables are turned a girl can, and does.

I think having a son is all the more reason to appreciate feminism. I loathe the idea that women are somehow more able to take care of children because we have ovaries. The idea that men are not equally capable of maintaining a home. The fact that boys are taught not to cry or show emotion as it is somehow a sign of weakness. There are many factors behind the higher adult male suicide rate, but girls are encouraged from childhood to express feelings and accept emptional comfort.

There was a recent thread about finding clothes for small boys. Girls clothing sections tend to look like a vat of pink dye has tipped over. Boys clothing is full of dark greens and blues and slogans like 'little devil/terror'. Both are gender stereotyping. What's wrong with bright coloured clothes on boys? When did it become so important that a stranger could identify your 1 month old as a boy or girl at twenty paces? There seems to be a lot less in terms of 'neutral' baby stuff eg baths and even pushchairs! Manufacturers push it because we have to buy twice but as a society we seem to lap it up. I've seen the same bloody Duplo type bricks available in a pink box or a blue box . Obviously there were always toys that were seen as 'for boys' or 'for girls' but when did big lego acquire gender status???

In employment, the expectation that women will be the ones who work shorter hours to cover nursery pick-ups and take time off to look after sick children doesn't help their interview prospects but it also doesn't help men when it comes to child custody. Talk to stay at home fathers or men who have 50:50 custody and you'll find that they get hit by the flip side of those attitudes.

Anyone who thinks that law is fair is biased and flawed should explain why?

Everyone is a rape apologist on the FEM board if they question the hate that some push as gospel.

Reading the piece it doesn't look like he can stayfrosty.

No woman can be prosecuted for rape under UK law. Rape requires a penis.

They can Victor.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-13737664