In thinking the recent events are show that some parents should have their children removed at birth simply for being scum ?

[SatansLittleHelper]

There are children out on the strets, 8/9/10/11 years old out on the streets looting and firebombing properties. Where the hell are their parents ? Has anybody ever given a shit about them ?

I am sick to death of scummy fuckwits who pop out one kid after another, they don't teach them morals or empathy these kids are dragged up, they have no chance. I really wouldn't be surprised if some of them have been sent out with 'shopping lists' because after all, we all need a 50 inch plasma.

I really do think that people who aren't capable of being decent human beings should have the right to raise children taken away from them.

Rant over.

basically op you're suggesting eugenics - fine until you become the group thats going to sterilised out of existence I'd think.

Yep some prob most of people rioting are complete scum but what about ones who aren't - who are young enough and who will change, grow up maybe. Some who were out rioting prob do have parent(s) who are doing theirbest and who'll continue to do their best and who probably eventually might see results - you can be brilliant parent and still have child who goes off rails....

Are you a Daily Mail reader by any chance?

It usually makes you a narrow minded bigot, imho Busty

Should be in quotes a la "Are you a Daily Mail reader by any chance?"

apologies :)

The state should never have the power to sterilise its citizens. Ever.

No ones mentioned elitism either.

Just decent, involved loving parenting.

This thread is shameful.

But useful, because people are making their views on poor people clear.

Ok then, what should the criteria be for sterilisation?

TBH, I'm finding peoples' views both here and in RL more scary than the actual riots.

Well I think I'd start with people who have criminal records for the abuse and neglect of children. Then I would move to people who have had a child removed due to their abusive or negligent parenting.

So they get a chance with a child but if they hurt or neglect that child no more children can be hurt by them.

Alouiseg, any child born to parents with criminal records for the abuse and neglect of children is likely to be removed at birth.

Saying some people cannot be parents- which I agree with- is not the same as saying that they cannot conceive. That enters a whole new territory.

I wonder what life would be like if we had to apply for a licence to be a parent?

You have to be between certain ages?
You have to be 100% physically fit?
You have to be married?
You have to earn x amount and own a home?
No-one with history of mental healh issues allowed?

What if you failed to get a licence? Enforced abortion? Imprisonment?

There has to be a middle way between "enforced sterilisation" and "let anyone have a child even if they can't or won't be a decent parent".

(And I don't think taking children away at birth is a middle way. Seems like the worst of all possible worlds actually).

How about no longer making it financially beneficial to have children? And how about using the money saved to provide better parenting support for those who are struggling.

The parents need to be locked up, as do the children.

Either the parents are too dumb to realise their child is coming home with £££ worth of goods, whatever age and the fact that they do not notice their 9year old is not in bed.

Or they are condoning the behaviour, maybe even requesting what goods they want, where to loot etc..

It sickens me, if you can't be a parent, don't.

Why must there be a 'middle way'?

Taking a child from it parent(s) at birth is a terrible thing, but it is the only even vaguely ethical way of dealing with the situation.

What do you suppose will happen to the children whose parents have had them without the means to support them and refuse to work?

well good on you loudlass

i am aware this thread can sound dodgy

but i really think some kids would be better of not born, thats a really nasty thing to type but sadly its true

i would never ever advocate enforced steri;isation, never, but if a crack whore gets her 1000k and stops bringing damaged kids into the world........

Did anyone see the guy on Sky News this afternoon who runs a scheme helping youths in disadvantaged areas? Not sure what it was called. He made some very good points about this which I agree with. A lot of these young men come from single parent families (NOT slagging off single mothers here) where the mothers have lost control of their kids (usually when they get involved in gangs which in turn comes from having a lack of a good male role model). These women are scared of their kids. They have grown into men who are bigger than them, do not respect them and who often abuse them physically and mentally. Something to think about but again not excusing these boys behaviour at all.

good Christ there's me thinking MN is a haven of right thinking sensible adults with a straight-ish view of the world....

no, apparently racism, bigotry and stupidity are the order of the day...

"What do you suppose will happen to the children whose parents have had them without the means to support them and refuse to work?"

I suspect the children of those parents don't see much of the benefits paid to support them in any case, tethers. Perhaps we could find ways of getting those benefits directly to the children. While making the benefits paid to the adults unrelated to the number of children they have.

TFO How is this thread in any way racist? Unless I've missed something race is barely mentioned, and if it is, then certainly not in any negative way.

Personally I cannot take the Guardian seriously these days. It is possibly the most boring paper in the world for a start as well as being completely out of touch. Last time I looked it was full of arcane petit-bourgeois self-indulgence to do with art and consumerism mostly. Their political views have no coherence whatsoever. But their readership always seem to think they permanently exist on some higher moral ground .

Oh bugger. I'm going to have to read the whole thing again now, in case someone said something racist and I missed it, and it will look like I'm racist now because I've said the thread is not racist.

personally, this thread is ridiculous, narrow minded and yes YABU - VVAU - since when did you decide to play God.

food for thought

Racist ??