So are youth club closures to blame?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

"There'll be riots"

So are the youth club closures to blame for the riots in Tottenham as some people on FB/Twitter believe?

dont be daft

its the usual suspects causing the usual troubles

end of

if it wasnt youth clubs/gangs/woe is me, it would be something else for them to whinny about

Banana, thats not my opinion it is the opinion of others.

You think the sort of youths that got involved in the riots would actually go to a Youth Club? We are saddled with an underclass that see no wrong in looting, setting fire to things, and carrying knives and guns. 'Tis the way things are today.

Haringay services are underfunded, it is a 'deprived and disadvantaged area.

It was little surprise that the Baby P and V Climbie tragedies happend in that L.A borough. So the decision to close the youth clubs and make cuts, shouldn't have been put forwarded, it is a borough currently in recovery.

BTW the residents have plenty 'to whine about', living there, the changes being made are in no-ones interests and the only goal is to save money.

Having said that the riots do seem to be in protest to the fatal shooting by police.

www.guardian.co.uk/society/.../haringey-youth-club-closures-video

Also read the links on the page.

The group on FB are saying

Mr Cameron tells the world its children like ours that do this because we are bad parents. We should have stayed with their dads, we are bad role models, we sleep around and have no morals. Now we know thats a load of shit but people believe it. Theyve slashed funding for dv services too hun. They promised tough action on gun and knife crime, then back tracked and did nothing.

I do agree that looting is wrong. However this government have created tension in communities across the country. The constant speeches about generations of immigrants never integrating, beating the poor with a stick, demonising them. Its no surprise that shits kicking off and people are angry. I didnt expect it so soon though.

And on the subject of youth centres, my county council closed all but 4 in the whole county. The ones that were kept were the ones that held protests and sit ins. There are now hundreds of kids in my town with nowhere to go, nowhere to go for advice, nowhere for guidance if their parents cant do it. And what about those kids in care? Its a disaster.

We live in a culture where the rich & famous lifestyle is pushed at us from every direction, while people are living in poverty & the government & local councils are cutting services because of an entirely fictional lack of money - in the light of this, I am totally unsurprised when the youth steal things that they feel they have a right to.

Well, that's the pressures of society I'm not a parent, so my understanding is limited, but parents do the best they can most of the time, in a culture that blames them for their kids actions without actually addressing the issues or offering any support. By the way - the guy the police killed was guilty of shooting a police radio, hardly a reasonable police response to so-called criminality. The police are the criminal thugs. And if the state can sanction violence within the police, how dare they tell us that we're not allowed to fight back?

SO basically it is everyones fault but the individuals and the parents.

Also the 'problem' of black on black (media wording) knife and gun crime, the killing of teenagers, has never been tackled properly or taken seriously.

We had a similar problem, but on a smaller scale, in Toxteth, until the riots took place, things were not being co-ordinated enough to be effective. The riots were needed so notice was taken, by everyone.

There have been numerous deaths of youngsters, children and babies all because of deprivation and a certain 'culture' in the area and surrounding areas, but it isn't being addressed.

At least the riots are sparking debate.

Also the facebook group used the term "hun". Therefore I cannot take anything they say seriously.

'By the way - the guy the police killed was guilty of shooting a police radio, hardly a reasonable police response to so-called criminality. The police are the criminal thugs'

I assumed that the officer was wearing the radio at the time.

I heard a youth worker or someone speaking on LBC he was saying that: parents are to blame, society is to blame, everyone else to blame but the bloody perpatrator of the crimes. Whatever happened to personal responsibility.

As I said I don't agree with their opinions - I am being cast out of the group I think

I think there is a huge lack of personal responsibility and also there is some essence of parental responsibility.

No, they're not. It comes as no surprise that some twats are bleating about deprivation and poverty being to blame for criminality and violence, we've heard it all before, but familiarity with the bullshit over christ knows how many years STILL doesn't stop me from wanting to tell the bleating bleeding hearters to feck off.

Grr! I'm furious that my beautiful city has been so damaged and people (and probably horses too) have been hurt in the course of doing their job.

So i am a twat because i think that the gang culture has been allowed to get out of hand in London.

It's moving north and in many cases, is being allowed in, people are trying to fight against it but are losing the battle.

OP perhaps your AIBU should have been wether the riots have anything to do with the youth club closures, which they aren't, as such.

So whats the answer? Id like to see more police on the beat, actually on their legs. Things for young people to do. Role models that arent all wealth and fame. Decent schools and decent parenting.
How does that happen?

Birds, assuming that your question was addressed to me (and apologies if it wasn't) - yes, those who blame the violence and criminality seen in Tottenham this weekend, or in Brixton 25 years ago come to that, on deprivation and poverty are twats. If you think that these are the reasons for these crimes then yes, IMHO you're a twat.

I speak as one who was born and bred in one of the areas which has seen these riots, as one who was raised in a deprived area and in poverty.

POVERTY AND DEPRIVATION ARE NO FUCKING EXCUSE FOR VIOLENCE, CRIMINAL DAMAGE, ANIMAL CRUELTY OR THEFT.

pigletmania totally agree man shoots at police bullet hits police in radio police shoot back to be honest I cannot see the issue, are they mad because the local drug dealer is dead and now they have to find another drug lord the whole this was shameful

As as for youth clubs closing down pah I say

Scouts go up to 18 years cost £3 a week
Swimming is around £3 a session with a leisure pass around £1
From Tottenham you can get to central London quickly most of the museums are free and the parks
Most London councils have some sort of football team Ect
Majority of London councils run summer clubs and schemes

Just by googling 100 free things to do in London with kids you can get some idea of how much their is for kids

If your on benefits you get half price travel and under 16 free travel so thats not a issue

So don any one dare say they are doing this because their is nothing to do

As parents it's our job to make sure our kids have something to do and I suspect that those kids who were out till gone 3 am were out with their parents full knowledge

And that is the real problem poor parenting

It has become the norm in our society to have 5 /6 kids by different men, never hold down a job ,allow the children to run wild then blame the government

Dogs- i haven't used the word poverty once. I made the point that the closures don't make sence given the problems haringrey has. But i then went on to say that the riots were in reaction to a shooting and escalated, which i provided a link for. Those that did the most damage were from well outside the area. So nothing to do with the cuts.

The riots are not connected to the closures, i made that point to the OP, two separate issues.

Maypole- with the cuts happening all over, as a SW some of the referals to the activities you mention cannot be made, youth clubs are needed and like Surestart fill more than one aim.

Do gang members go to youth clubs? I very much doubt that they do. I do not think youth club closures can be blamed for these riots.

People need to get a grip and stop blaming the government for their bad choices.

Why its it's the council/ governments job to provide the children you have decided to have and can't support or look after with things to do During the summer

Like I said I can just imagine how those children came to be out in the street at 3 am causing trouble

AND THAT FAMILY SHOULD BE AShamed of themselves their SON TRIED SHOOT A OFFICER OF THE LAW because he wanted to avoided arrest

And because they cannot accept their son was a gangsta they burned down the whole town outrageous

Btw I am not white before any one starts

In reality this issue goes beyond any cuts. As a parent many have little say in their DC's, especially DS's lives, once they turn 14, the law, eve doesn't allow them to, the police then have little powers to return the teenagers home. The gang, drug etc culture has been rising for years and now needs a clamp down on.

As i said it is moving north and i know people who are getting out of social care/children and family services, homeless hostels because of the way things are being allowed to go.

'The lunitics are taking over the aslyum'.

The 'gang culture' was there before many came to the UK, it should have been broken quicker. The services needed were not faced upto, sometimes in the name of not appearing racist.

Birdsgottafly why do you need sw to take your child to the park for a picnic

Sorry again it poor parenting not the government cuts

Again museums are free in London
Travel is free for children
Swimming is dirt cheap
Parks are free

You don't need a referral to book your children in to scouts its a White wash for lazy parents who want the council to raise their children as well as house and provide benefits