To ask dd's friend to say please and thank you whilst on a play date?

[Sleepglorioussleep]

Didn't really think about it, dd had friend round, both seven, and friend asked for drink (bit of a tone in the way she asked). As a reflex really I said, "say please" and she informed me that she didn't have to say please. I, bit less reflex this time, said that we do in our house. Mother rang me the next day to say that what I'd said was unacceptable. I promise faithfully that both comments to her dd were made in a pleasant tone! Aibu?

my - great typo though I think :)

I'm just saying what was said. When i said i said 'sorry' if i'd misheard, someone posted that made me 'ridiculously apologetic and WEAK'. Which was news to me! i thought i'd always been respectful and polite - Oh well you live and learn!

But the general gist was that it was an aspirational class affectation

really what an odd POV - surely its regional or age related - certainly isn't MCA around here - or maybe it is these days, as I find "wo" as in what in the sloppy sense its used these days to be pretty crass - maybe I'm MCA & in denial

catgirl you were not the only one, there was a rash of itchy teeth occurring!

phew - feel a bit better then :)

but her argument falls down straight away, because the DD said to you "i don't have to say please" - if she was going to pick it up from example, then she would never have said that!

The woman is making it far more complicated than it has to be. Children learn manners by cause and effect: if they say please they get what they asked for. It's not rocket science is it?

p'raps the child has overheard her mother explaining to others, gm for example, previously and therefore knows she doesn't have to say please

All that is doing is raising her children to be ill-mannered and no one will want them to come on playdates.

Parenting fail

I had some friends acquaintances who banned the grandmother from having contact with their DD because GM tried to get her to say please and thank you. They were of the opinion that they wanted her child to say thank you only if, upon consideration, she personally felt that thanks were particularly called for in that situation.

She is now 8 and has apparently rarely found that any situation warrants Ps and/or Qs.

YANBU If I got a phone call like that there would be no more play dates with that child. Not that mine have play dates any more.

Chandon Your post made me :)

their child - me doofus.

Oh dear...basic manners are going to be lost on this child.

I think my reply would have been "You do not tell me how things are done in my house. If you don't insist on good manners in your home, that is your business, but in MY house, we say please and thank you and I expect any guest in my home to do the same. If you don't like it, she doesn't have to come over any more. That is of course, your choice."

But then, bad manners piss me right off.

what hester said

I wouldn't have a child in my house whose parents objected when I asked the child to say please. I am not here to be ordered around by ill-mannered children who complain because the nasty grown-up was trying to teach them social niceties.

I do sort of understand their view point though
feel the same way about getting v small children to say sorry for hurting other small children
pointless waste if time

I remember once being at the beach with some friends and friends of theirs we'd never met before. DH and I bought a round of ice creams for everyone. One of the children - who'd we never met before - didn't say thank you when we handed it to her. My friend told her she should say thank you. The little girl replied: 'I'm shy'

Funny though, she hadn't been shy enough to ask for an ice cream

but perry - v small children is different to 7 year olds

7 year olds get told off at school if they don't say please and thank you to teachers

So the message to the child is - what? That at school they have to be polite to grown-ups, but outside of that setting it's up to them?

I wouldn't invite her again.
DD2 has a friend who likes to tease me and be a bit cheeky, but when I said firmly that one personal comment was taking it too far she just nodded. In consequence she is always welcome

Or does the OP's friend have a problem with teachers telling her child not to say thank you too?

and that they didn't think it should be insisted on or imposed by adults

That could hint at quite a few parenting philosophies being put into practice. Non coercive parenting is one that springs to mind.

eg One form of coercion which although is quite mild Istill find odd is when adults say to children "say please or say thankyou" Surely if a child is spoken to always in a polite and respectful manner, the child will adopt these niceties naturally without needing to be nagged to say it?

If that is similar to what the mum is practicing her objection would be along the lines that according to her perception, you were coercing her daughter,which she finds unacceptable.

If somebody is very much on a different parenting page to you and they are very keen on having their practices maintained by other parents who do not share them (or are even aware of them) things can get a bit sticky.

Are the kids really really good friends and is it just a few little hiccupy issues that you can easily manage on the other mother's terms, in order to keep the peace ?

somehow missed that the children were seven but would probably rather that the children were genuinely grateful rather than trotted something out

somehow missed that the children were seven but would probably rather that the children were genuinely grateful rather than trotted something out

Hmmm. I think I'd keep on inviting the girl over and I think her mother sounds interesting. Not sure I like the implicit "telling you what to do" in the 'phone call but I quite like having a few quirky progressives around - makes for an interesting mix in the parenting world. How dull if we're all the same.

What did you reply? for what it's worth, here is one possible reply:

"While I appreciate where you're going with trying not to enforce "manners" on your child as an empty form, without reflection, in a top-down, power-inflected manner - and I do get that - without thought, "manners" becomes nothing other than an outdated class signifier - and often a signifier of the lower-middle-class verbal symbols of the early twentieth century at that - I approach the idea of "please" and "thank you" differently.

My belief is that we live in a society that devalues feminised labour, and those carrying out this labour - primarily women - often to the point of attempting to render this labour actually invisible. This has many deleterious effects.

I believe it comes to something of a crisis point in the labour of mothers. I may be wrong, but I do think one of the things we should teach our children is that the work we perform - for them - is real. One way of signifying this is through "pleas" and "thank you". "Please" signifies that we are free agents - able to donate our labour, and perform the task, for them, freely - or not. It renders us - mothers - visible as agents and subjects in our own right - and it renders our labour visible.

It also teaches children, with the "thank you", that to be given - donated - this labour, does not indebt them, leave them "less" as human beings, or give them a voided subjectivity. In short - we are teaching them, with "thank you", that the (masculine? patriarchal?) concept of subjectivity is not the only way to conceptualised oneself - that that is a paranoic subjectivity. In fact, we can think of subjectivity as implicitly relational, always indebted, co-mingled, extending towards others and from others, in a comples, inter-dependent web of gifts and debts - none of which need necessarily be diminishing.

And so I tend to use "please" and "thank you"."

DH and I now add "please" to the end of each other's sentences if we don't say it... too much time spent with toddlers!