AIBU about SIL, DH and Hanukkah????

[Iamkenny]

DH is a liberal Jew (observant on something not on others). I was raised in a Buddhist household.

This year Hanukkah falls during Christmas (Dec 20th-28th) and we try to spend Christmas time with my family and Rosh Hashanah, Pesach and Purim with his (we live closer to my family so spend more time with mine on a month to month basis)

Me and DH decided when we got married that our children would be raised culturally Jewish e.g. festivals, bat/bar mitzvah and circumcisions for our sons. But could decide on the religiously part themselves (which DH is lax on anyway)

This Christmas our DD will be 4, DS 2 and we will have 2 month old twins DD2 and DS2. We will be spending the time staying with my parents along with my sister and her family and my brother and his family.

DD is just beginning to understand and relishes all the food and the prays and the menorah

We have spent the time with my parents and sister and her family before and they throw themselves in, especially my dad, BIL and nephew who love the food. But we have never spent the time with my Brother, SIL and my niece.

My family have always known that they are welcome to buy our children and us presents for Christmas day and we buy my family presents for Christmas day. But they know that our children wont receive any other presents from DH family and that we give 8 small presents (one each day) to them

It is my DH culture that he wishes to share with his children, ( and I throw myself in as well) he relishes doing the prays and menorah with the people he loves.

I was on the phone to my SIL a few days ago and basically she said a few things that accumulated in saying that she wasn't comfortable with having her 12yr old daughter around the Hanukkah celebrations and that she herself doesn't what to be around it at all, including the food which is going to be alongside normal 'christmassy' food

I have always had a complex relationship with my SIL but we get on perfectly fine, and it's nothing obvious and can spend holidays with each other as long as we have somewhere to go to be away from each other. Also she is not religious (raised CofE but no religion and my niece has been bought up with no religion)

I was shocked and couldn't say anything. DH is very upset and now for the first time feels uncomfortable around my family, feeling that they don't accept him and therefore our children (which apart from my SIL not true)

I want to spend the time with my family, DH wants to celebrate Hanukkah with DC and we both want my family to be aware of what is a very core part of my DC and DH life

I don't know what to do????

AIBU to expect her not to care so much? And just get on with it? Especially as it seems to have come out of nowhere (she came to wedding in the temple etc.)

The thing is though Gruffalo, this family's Christmas tradition involves some elements of Hanukkah. The SIL is the one who wants to change that. She's welcome to do Christmas her way in her home, but not to impose her ideas on all the rest of the family, nor to tell the OP that she, her DH and their DCs (the hosts' grandchildren) are not welcome in someone else's house!

Ok, I think there has been a lot of overreacting here, and I think that you can sort this out, it is only July after all, so plenty of time. I would also suggest you totally ignore the comments about circumcision and questioning your dh/dc's 'jewishness.'.......I dont think that is relevant atm.

I am not sure that your SIL is being anti-semetic, obv it is hard to judge without hearing the exact words and tone etc. but it seems that she is a bit uncomfortable with the blending of the two festivals, she is probably being a bit silly and unreasonable but not necessarily anti-semetic.

Your dh is also being unreasonable with his comments about your family, but I think you know that, hopefully he will calm down once he is over the initial shock.

I would speak to your parents about how to manage this. What exactly is involved in Chanukah at your parents, can you SIL just opt out of bits without making a huge fuss? Things like additional dishes are quite easy in that respect

AitchGee, you are a disgrace. Schomberg, there are plenty of threads on MN about circumcision, and that would be an appropriate place for your views.

OP, I think you need to have two conversations. One is with your dh. Reaffirm that you understand how hurt and defensive he feels, and that there is no question of your dc being expected to celebrate Hannukah in the home of somebody who does not respect his faith. However, in creating a mixed faith family you two have taken on the responsibility of working with compromise, mediation and negotiation. Not with your SIL, but with the rest of your family who love and support you. Ask him what gestures of support they could make that would reassure him (I suspect he wants them to stop keeping out of it, and make a positive stand). Remind him that your dc will learn really valuable life lessons from how you two handle this kind of situation. They will want to see their parents be principled and proud of their faith, yes, but also gracious, flexible and able to reach out to others.

The other conversation is with your family (not SIL). I don't think they should all pile in to a family ruck, but I think it may help if you asked them to take a stand - perhaps by inviting you all to celebrate Hanukah and Christmas in another part of the family?

As for SIL, are you clear about whether she's actively uncomfortable with the Jewish faith or merely being a bit babyish about not wanting to deviate from her idea of how Christmas 'should' be? (People are incredibly fixed about 'Christmas isn't Christmas if we don't...', I find.) If the former, there's no room for her in your lives. If the latter, could someone else in the family sit her down and talk this through? Suggest that family relationships are more important than slavish maintenance of her holiday traditions?

Perhaps SIL finds it odd that your way of celebrating will take place at your parents house since they are not Jewish?

I do think that your husband is overreacting though-it´s not as if he his being prevented from celebrating as he wants with his children, is it?

And does SIL not wanting to join in make her anti Semetic?

I don't quite understand what it's got to do with the SIL.
She has been invited to a house where certaing customs are followed (sounds really interesting to me!), for family celebrations.
She either goes or she doesn't.
She has no business trying to change anything and to be honest, I don't see how your parents can stay out of the situation as it's their house and they were happy with the plans.

"She either goes or she doesn't."

Well that´s it in a nutshell, isn´t it?

Your parents are accomodating your wishes & SIL doesn´t want to join in.

Not sure why your husband is so upset with your family.

I'm half Jewish OP. Very very liberal father. Surely you must be considering converting to Judaism if your DC are to be brought up as Jewish. In the Jewish faith the children follow the faith of the mother - there are things in here that don't quite stack up to me . Your DH sounds a little more observant than liberal too. Exactly what are you expecting to get from this post.

Can you explain why your husband is angry at anyone other than your SIL? I don't understand?
Is your brother defending his wife's position? Not sure what you're arguing with him about?

I can understand your DH's reaction - he must feel that they are defending her reaction by not making a firm stand against it. But they are clearly trying to keep the peace and avoid a family rift rather than defending her position.

I can't believe some of the grief and the questions you've had here

I honestly don't see the problem with your SIL wanting a 'traditional English' Christmas, but she should certainly accept that if she wants this then she needs to take a step back and have Christmas in her own house.

I understand that your parents don't want to get involved, but they should definitely make it clear to your DH that they are supportive of him.

she wasn't comfortable with having her 12yr old daughter around the Hanukkah celebrations and that she herself doesn't what to be around it at all

OK. Your DH is reacting to the fact that your parents haven't gotten involved and told her she's talking crap. I can understand that. He needs to talk to your parents about it face to face. Your sister and BIL obviously don't feel like idiot SIL, so he's fine with them presumably?

We have spent the time with my parents and sister and her family before ... but we have never spent the time with my Brother, SIL and my niece.

Yes she's spouted bigoted crap, but is it possible that she was actually trying to find a way out of going to your ILs for Christmas? I presume she usually spends it with her family or at home. Maybe she's not keen on all of you being squeezed into one house or just wants to be elsewhere and do Christmas the way she feels it should be done. It doesn't excuse what she said. Nothing could. It might be something for your DH to think about though - that she's thrown this crap out to deliberately stir up trouble and get out of going.

Woah, I totally missed that about the Hanukkah celebrations. I assumed she meant that she had not wanted to celebrate Christmas differently (as someone said, people do get protective of Christmas) but to not want to be around it at all is completely ridiculous, and sounds pretty anti-Semitic.

You said before that you have a complicated relationship with her - has there been any indication before that your DH and family's Jewishness was an issue with her? Or could it be that she wants a "proper" xmas?
Though seriously - what's objectionable about hannukah food - donuts and latkes. Now, if you were forcefeeding her matza I'd understand, but latkes ... come on!

Some non-religious people are uncomfortable around religious celebrations, thats not in itself a big deal, and on the information given here it seems like your DH is blowing it out of all proportion.

I can't see where she "spouted bigoted crap" by saying she wasn't comfortable with an unknown religious celebration appearing in front of her. Perhaps she is anti-semitic, you haven't given any evidence of such.

Unsurprisingly it doesn't stop people leaping in with shreiking proclamations of how awful she is. Its a wonder they don't hurt themselves constantly throwing themselves towards conclusions they can't possibly know.

Some non-religious people are uncomfortable around religious celebrations

But she's fine with celebrating christmas?

There is nothing wrong with being uncomfortable around religious celebrations, but there is something wrong with accepting some religions and not others for no good reason.

OP, you need to talk to your parents and your brother and find out the root of the problem. It may be that SIL is looking for an excuse to get out of Christmas with her in-laws, or it may be fear or ignorance, or even plain-old bigotry. Without talking, none of you will know the real reasons.

Personally I can't see why anyone would turn down the chance to eat Jewish food. Yum!

Maybe she just doesn't know enough about the celebration and what to expect? I think it would be good for your parents to talk to her and explain what to expect.

How would your celebration change the 'typical' Christmas? Would you want her to join in in something? You seem quite open minded so I guess not?

I have lived with a Jewish family before and have to say I found it all very interesting. I joined in on the celebrations without feeling uncomfortable. but this was my choice, maybe she feels a bit pressured and just needs some reassurance?

I do understand your DH though, especially because your parents don't seem to have challenged SIL right away.
I can understand why he would feel uncomfortable celebrating around someone who is judging and unhappy in the background. Tell him it's just the SIL and that you will deal with it.
I can imagine it becoming uncomfortable though if she is there and moans the whole time.

Christmas for many people has no religious connotations at all, and certainly carries no overt religious elements. Which you know, its not the same thing.

Is it possible that SIL is anti-religion generally (rather than anti Judaism)?

Perhaps she would be equally reluctant about joining in with/being present at a traditional Christian meal (with saying grace, etc)?

I have to admit I would feel a bit uncomfortable about attending a meal where people were praying (whatever their religion) so I wonder if that is what she is worried about rather than the Jewishness per se.

Nonetheless, I still agree that it's her problem not yours. If that's the way your family Christmases have always been, and she thinks she won't be able to enjoy it, then it's for her to choose whether to attend or not.

Your DH might seem to be overreacting but I can understand why. He needs some reassurance from your family now that they don't agree with your SIL and support her views. I had a similar problem with my in-laws when DH and I were getting married. I am Irish (Republic of Ireland) and we were holding our wedding in Ireland. DH's brother was a UK naval officer at the time. Neither he nor his wife came to our wedding - largely because they couldn't be arsed and had a baby at the time but instead of being honest and saying that, they just insulted my culture and said that Ireland (yes, the Republic, not Northern Ireland and even NI would have been ridiculous since this was 2005, not 1975!) wasn't a safe country for them or their children due to the 'history'. My MIL repeated this to me.

I absolutely hit the roof and was incredibly sad. It was such a gratuitous insult and deliberately intended to offend me and upset DH and I for our wedding (which was already a little stressful as my parents are very strict Catholics and DH was baptised Church of Scotland - although an atheist - so my family had to make sacrifices and make a big cultural jump as a 'mixed' marriage was still a big deal in their eyes). While I was glad to have brother and his dumb as a bag of hammers wife out of our lives - just wrote them off after this as they never apologised or made amends - I was nonetheless disappointed in my PILs' reaction as well. They weren't particularly vocal about condemning what my DH's brother had said and claimed they didn't want to take sides. They never asked his brother to apologise to me or make amends. Considering it was our wedding, it definitely put a strain on my relationship with them as well because it seemed to me that they were condoning his behaviour and secretly agreed with his ignorant views, even if they didn't personally want to say anything to my face.The fact that it was my MIL who told me what they had said even though she knew it would hurt my feelings increased my distrust of them.

Anyway, we are now on relatively good terms with PILs but don't speak to my DH's brother and his dumb as a bag of hammers wife anymore (no loss). So the relationship can be repaired but your parents need to reassure your DH that they really repudiate your SIL's comments, and don't have a negative attitude towards his culture. They should also really step in and remonstrate with your brother and his wife to try and make peace.

(Sorry for hijacking your thread with my own family strife but am just giving an example to explain how your DH might feel at the moment. I had never come across anti-Irish views before either and found it really disturbing)

I've only glanced through but - do your SIL and DN actually understand what will be happening in the house? Maybe they think it just won't be like their 'normal' Christmas and are a bit worried / fearful - i.e. does the 12 yr old know she'll still get her normal Christmas presents, and will still be able to play with them, and won't have to attend prayers she doesn't understand (unless she wants to)? I think you think they know how their day will pan out, but maybe actually they don't?

In terms of sorting this out, I do think your parents have to get involved, ie 'DGD, this is the kind of thing that will happen at our house at Christmas time...'

I don't actually see any anti-Semitism here, I see a 12 year old who loves her 'normal' Christmas and thinks it's all going to be different. I think (honestly) that's how I would probably feel at her age too, because all I knew about the Jewish faith at that point was that they didn't celebrate Christmas. ( obviously I am much better educated now)