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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be peeved at the school? Can teachers explain it to me?

134 replies

CalamityKate · 21/07/2011 12:53

Wrote a letter to the HT a few days ago, asking if the boys (8 and 9) could have Friday afternoon off for a family outing.

It's the last day of term, they'll only be watching DVD's or something equally end-of-term-ish and all we're asking for is 3 hours off.

HT said no.

Which is fine, but I know for sure that at least 3 children out of DS1's class have had the whole of the last week off to go on holiday!

So what's the score with authorised absences? How is it worked out? Because I'm buggered if I can understand why some children are authorised for days on end, while some are refused three hours Hmm

OP posts:
TheRealTillyMinto · 21/07/2011 15:50

yes they do have this sort of policy to help with ofsted but this is how the school's performance is assessed.

if you want to change it, the school is not the right place to start. they dont have control assessment procedures & it they could change anything, would probably have more important issues related to education and welfare. e.g. better able to refer a child to SS and know that SS would have the time to deal with them.

you are correct - 3 hours does not disrput the educaion of all - but it is another thing, on top of many far more serious and unavoidable issues. this is really easy to avoid. if the policy was 2 days, you would always get parent wanting more.

catgirl1976 · 21/07/2011 15:50

Have been having a look on line about this and it sounds like, if you took your DCs out of school for a weeks unauthorised absence, you MIGHT get a £100 fine. Given the difference in holiday prices in and out of term time, I can't imagine £100 being much a deterent if someone was wishing to take a child on holiday during term time? Or have I read this wrong?

altinkum · 21/07/2011 15:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
CalamityKate · 21/07/2011 15:54

[its a bit saddening to hear so many parents on MN view of school is so poor.[

I absolutely LOVE the school my boys go to.

The teachers are all lovely. The kids are, by and large, lovely. My oldest son has Asperger's and every single one of the teachers (and the Head) have been wonderful with him. All the children are encouraged to be kind and thoughtful to others. He's never been teased or picked on. I shall probably cry when they eventually leave for Big School Blush

From the moment we first looked round the school, we were struck by how well behaved and pleasant all the pupils were, and how the teachers interacted with the pupils and each other. In fact I got tearful in the Head's office after our tour - being in the school brought back so many happy memories of my own time in Primary Blush

OP posts:
worraliberty · 21/07/2011 15:55

No you haven't read it wrong catgirl apart from the fact I think fines begin at £50 but there are other implications to a parent being continually fined. They can eventually be sent to prison (though that's not going to happen for a holiday) but what is more likely to happen is their child will be kicked out of school if the parents continually flout the rules.

The main reason being, if you can't afford a holiday...save up a bit longer.

altinkum · 21/07/2011 15:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catgirl1976 · 21/07/2011 16:09

Hmm - this has all been very educational!

It sounds like a good school will exercise a bit of common sense and discretion in these things. But in the OPs case it does sound like they are being inflexible and unreasonable.

I would like to OP to adopt me though, as would love a day out at the races and watching the scissor sisters. I don't need a permission slip, can take myself to the loo and am only occasionally car sick :)

malinois · 21/07/2011 16:10

Tilly:

so why do people hate and resent schools? (from this thread it seems a fair assessment)

A few reasons:

Because they see them as just one more aspect of a pervasive, intrusive, nannying/bullying state that tries to control every aspect of their lives.

Because they find all the petty rules and nitpicking about uniform and hair length and all the rest of the bollocks that only British schools seem to care about ridiculous.

Because they remember being bullied, humiliated and physically assaulted by teachers when they themselves were children.

SiamoFottuti · 21/07/2011 16:22

I can't see why you automatically equate not asking permission with hating and resenting schools, or having a poor view? Rather a bizarre leap.

My childrens school is excellent, he has very good attendance, is very happy there and we are involved with the school. However I am his parent and I make the decisions for my children, not the school. Luckily for me I don't live in the UK with their penchant for endless rules and orders, and when I took my so on holiday in term time not a word was said to me. I informed them beforehand and picked a time when it would be least disruptive. I do not ask permission from a school or anyone else to be allowed to take my own child anywhere.

TheRealTillyMinto · 21/07/2011 16:33

SiamoFottuti - based on my reading of the thread, it is a fair assesement of the general sentiment.

malinois - may be there are many wrong things..but really taking your child to school, everyday in term time, when they are not ill, is that really so bad?
like i said earlier, it is a bit like speed limits, if everyone was sensible, they would not be needed. so not ideal but realistic.

SiamoFottuti · 21/07/2011 16:37

Then I hope you aren't a teacher if thats your idea of a fair assesment! You have no basis for such a conclusion.

TheRealTillyMinto · 21/07/2011 16:39

i certainly wont be telling my lovely DP about this thread:

As a team, he & the teachers, TAs & other school staff have:

  1. Educated the children
  1. Looked out for their welfare
  1. Dealt with the neglect, the bullying, the mad parents, the aftermath of war, the food hiding because they are so hungry, the weird obsession with sex (in an 11 yr old), the incestuous father/grandfather, the parents who cannot cope, don?t want to cope (i have told you not to call me about my child), the sexual bullying, the fighting, the swearing
  2. Turned around its performance - almost special measures to whatever is one off the top
  1. Saved the school

(they dont have any rules about hair and the uniform is jumper and tshirt)

in this type of school there is no interest in nannying/bullying the parents, they have better things to do.

SiamoFottuti · 21/07/2011 16:44

Thats lovely for him, well done. Not sure what that has to do with perfectly normal average non-abusive parents who want to take their kids out on the last day of term though.

TheRealTillyMinto · 21/07/2011 16:46

SiamoFottuti - i am not a teacher - partner of Head. i dont think the two teachers who commented on here earlier would disagree, in fact one of them made the original statement.

there is no way i would be a teacher though. very hard job.

joben · 21/07/2011 16:47

CATGIRL Schools are regulated by OFSTED and poor attendance can reduce their rating from good/outstanding to satisfactory/inadequate. OFSTED are a Government enforced regulatory body-schools have no choice but to comply.
On another note, many (if not all) of the child abuse cases in recent years have involved children being kept away from schools to hide abuse from the authorities. Having a legal imperative for parents whose children are registered in state education (not sure about private) to ensure their child attends can help schools monitor children at risk. You may know your DCs will be at home/ on an excursion doing wonderfully educational activities. But not all parents will be spending quality time with their children, and how is the school to be expected to have different rules for different families? There needs to be some flexibility, but the regulations are designed to protect children, meet regulatory requirements and ensure children's progress, not to make parent's lives difficult.

Bandwithering · 21/07/2011 16:49

Don't ASK. Just tell them.

I recently wrote a letter to tell the school that dc would be missing for 3 days. I didn't ask their permission. I made no apology for my decision and I didn't try to justify it. Nothing negative was said to be because by telling the school, I took responsibility for it.

You can't ASK a school to give you their blessing! They just can't ever do that. Next time, don't ask.

Pancakeflipper · 21/07/2011 16:50

The Headmistress at our school is in for a shock tomorrow when I rush over and give her a huge hug and snog.

Having read the negatives about a kid going to school, my son seems to be at one of few non-intimidating schools around. A school that welcomes parents and works with them to make it happy place. Gosh.

TheRealTillyMinto · 21/07/2011 16:51

SiamoFottuti - because if you did that, people would still not be happy where you drew the line and there are more important things.

why is it such a big deal? you ask, the school say no. if you dont like school, move or home school.

cricketballs · 21/07/2011 16:56

malinois

Because they see them as just one more aspect of a pervasive, intrusive, nannying/bullying state that tries to control every aspect of their lives.

not trying to control but just trying to ensure all children have a decent life. for example the letter about bedtimes etc was I am sure aimed at the number of children that come into school very tired and can not concentrate and a gentle reminder to all parents is the easiest way to get the message across

Because they find all the petty rules and nitpicking about uniform and hair length and all the rest of the bollocks that only British schools seem to care about ridiculous.

because of course there are no rules about dress/hair/makeup etc when in a place of work Hmm

Because they remember being bullied, humiliated and physically assaulted by teachers when they themselves were children

you might have done but not everyone...

Bandwithering · 21/07/2011 16:57

God have none of ye any common sense!!!!? Just make the decision yourselves and live with it.

I love my kids' school and have a great respect for the teachers, but I also know that my children's attendance have been very good all year and it's MY decision whether or not they miss a couple of days at the end of term.

exoticfruits · 21/07/2011 16:58

All our schools had a directive from the LEA about unauthorised absences-they sent it home to parents.
On the very odd occasion that I took mine off for a day (I can only think of once) I wrote a letter beforehand and told them I was doing it and why.

PrincessScrumpy · 21/07/2011 17:00

My parents once gave me permission to take 2 hours off school when I was 13 and would miss IT (in which I was top of the class) and art (which I am terrible at and missing one lesson was not going to change things) so I could see Blur at Wembly Arena. The school were unhappy and gave me an after-school detention. I had perfect attendance up to that point and always had dental apps etc in hols or after school. My parents refused to allow me to do the detention.

It turned out that 11 pupils missed 2 hours for the same concert (two being teachers in the school's dds!). In the end there was a big argument and it split the school staff, but on the day of the detention, the detention was cancelled.

This isn't a new argument and imo schools are more lenient than when I was younger - if it was a school day we were expected to be in school.

TheRealTillyMinto · 21/07/2011 17:50

I thought my teachers were amazing when i was at school. i dont think you realise at the time how much you will owe them: Miss Starling (infants 1, 1978 or there abouts), Mrs Blackburn (infants 1), Mrs Holmes (infants 3), Mrs Carter (junior 1), Mrs Ms Telford (jun2), Mr Blackwell, (j3), Mrs Baker (j4), then miss king, mrs packer, mr barwell, miss kiddie, gets a bit fuzzy a senior school.

wonderful people. gave me an education.

SiamoFottuti · 21/07/2011 17:58

Move home or move school? Well there is only the one school and I'm in neg-equity land, but even if I wasn't I think the simpler thing is to still make my own decisions for my own children. Hmm

seeker · 21/07/2011 18:05

So are there people on here who think you should just be able to take your child out of school whenever you want to and for as long as you want to?

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