My 5 year old niece was told to go home and pray

[freyjasauntie]

I am really upset that my 5 year old niece was told by her school teacher to go home and pray at bedtime. Although she goes to a C of E school, this is due to logistics of living in the country, and the school are aware that she is being raised atheist, (she was enrolled as such) with a view to letting her decide her own path when she is ready to understand what that entails.

If a Muslim teacher had told her girls to go home and wear hijab, there would be uproar, but it seems to be accepted that schools can promote Christian ideology. I have no problems with my niece being taught about Jesus, about being kind to each other, about truth telling and other so called Christian Values (which can be found in almost any religion) but I strongly object to her being told to give up something for Lent (she had no idea why she should do so), and to pray at bedtime.

Religious Education should be EDUCATION, as a qualified RE teacher, I have always presented all world religious as equally valuable, but there is a real difference between education and what I believe is insidious indoctrination.

People who believe in deities still 'beleive' in the "the scientific actuality of death" though.

MK - you don't have to withdraw your DD from anything, but I don't think yo have to like-it-or-lump-it either. You could go and have a word with the teacher, say you are concerned, find out the context of the instuction to go home and pray, remind her you are atheists and let het know how you feel about religious instruction.

I think it is worth doing, even if it doesn't change anything in the short-run. if people don't keep quiet schools will realise that they can't assume that everyone is happy and comfortable with a blanket assumption of faith.

GIddypickle: Oh not this crap again. Plenty of people regard the idea of the existence of gods in about the same way as they regard the idea of the existence of giant flying flatulent unicorns ie not true and totally irrelevant to their lives. The reason rational people object to religion and criticise it is because religion is used as a weapon. Anyone who genuinely believes in any gods is basically a bit gullible - whether or not they are nice people depends on every other factor about them. There is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of invisible special imaginary friends, the concept of such things exists as a useful tool of social control.

And that takes us back around the circle SCGB-if you feel so strongly don't send them to a faith school.
They make it all quite clear in the prospectus, with written policies and, most likely, on their website-it is no secret. I find it a bit strange that they should change -you have the right to withdraw your DC.
For those who say they don't want to single out your DC, it wouldn't be a problem if everyone felt the same-the minority would be those who were 'in'. From that fact you can only assume that most people are either happy or apathetic.
If I was a vegetarian,with strong views on animal suffering,running a village shop without meat products I wouldn't expect people to say 'we all eat meat, you are the only shop and you must stock bacon, cooked ham etc'-it wouldn't be my problem. I don't think that this is any different.

But if you were a vegetarian and the only shop in the village would you be justified in saying everybody who comes into this shop has to eat vegetetarian food all the time, even at home? And you're not allowed to come in here and buy a bar of chocolate without becoming a vegetarian too?

I don't for a minute think that the school are saying that! I don't know a single faith school that expects it and I am perfectly sure the niece missed out a few words like 'if'-she must be an exceptional 5yr old if she relays everything from school word for word.

I would of course in my shop be trying to convert!

Not exactly convert-but making sure that people knew what I stood for.

Exoticfruits: But I haven't sent my child to a faith school. I didn't even apply to the local faith school. Unfortunately, sending a child to a non-faith school doesn't allow them to escape crap-peddling entirely. So at the moment I am subtly reminding DS that the visiting vicar is not a proper teacher and not always right. Because I am not impressed with the visiting vicar at all.

With respect SCGB -this is a thread about faith schools. I have sympathy with those who don't realise that there are no secular schools. I don't have any for those who send to a faith school and think it should come without the faith!

I don't suppose the "you shouldn't have chosen a faith school" argument is very helpful if the only local school is a faith school.

Posters on this subject often seem to believe that everybody is in a big city with plenty of schools to choose from. In fact, it is perfectly possible if you live in the country to find that all schools within a reasonable travelling radius are faith schools. Seeing that the majority of the population is no longer Christian I don't think this is a reasonable state of affairs at all. You can only choose if there is a choice available.

and fwiw I am one of these gullible people - but not gullible enough to believe that everybody has to be like me

It is really quite simple. These schools tend to be small, if they are the only one in a village. Get together with the other parents-all opt your DC out of collective worship and religious instruction (you have the right).They would have to change if the majority were 'out'. I don't think you would get everyone agreeing. It appears so from MN, because those unhappy post-in RL- in the schools the majority are happy or couldn't care. Try it-see what reaction you get.

OK. I don't agree with Faith schools - and I disagree even more with the fact that every state school in the country is essentially a Christian school. I don't think religion has any place in education at all.

However, we have to work with what we've got. And I agree that if you choose to send your child to Faith school then complain about the faith element, you are being unreasonable. However. If your child is at a Faith school by default - as many are, then you have a right to expect your ticking of the "no religion" box on the application form to be respected. That does not mean - despite the attempts of others on this thread to say that it does - that the school has to change. It just means that the wishes of the parents of this child should be respected, and the child not be given praying homework!

But nobody has said it was homework. Infact despite bring repeatedly asked neither mother or aunt could/would confirm the context of this comment.

"praying homework" was a sort of joke.

But the fact remains that the school is teaching a child identified as non Christian to pray to a Christian god. Not being taught about prayer - being actually taught to pray.

But it's a Christian school so of course they will. The family have already said they don't want to withdraw her from religious practise in the school so how can they complain?

I am yet to read anything that suggests this is anymore than the family making a mountain out of a molehill

Perhaps think about contacting the national secular society as they will have some good advice- of you feel strongly perhaps sign up

Sirzy - so if she was a vegetarian it would be OK for the school to give her meat?

Haven't read whole thread alert. My DS is at a faith school and I am an atheist. When he was younger, we used to have the "how was the world made?" and "where do humans come from?" conversations. I would give him both sides of the argument and tell him what I believed. When he was 5/6, he concluded that God made the world and the people like he was told at school. From the age of 7/8, he was a staunch believer in the Big Bang theory, evolution etc, because once he was old enough to understand it, we talked about it and I have shown him PROOF (lots of insights for him at the Natural History Museum). He also gets very pissy if you try to fob him off with stories about Santa or the Tooth Fairy. Quote: "I didn't believe in Father Christmas last year but he came anyway, so it must be you."

I suppose what I'm trying to say is five is very young. I've always wanted to give my kids both sides of the story and let them make their own minds up, and one teacher telling a child to pray at five isn't going to convert them into Christianity for life, particularly if the get both sides of the story at home.

But they aren't giving her anything. They probably suggested the whole class could say a prayer before bed for whatever reason. That can't be forced by anyone and there is nothing wrong with the suggestion.

It would be like a vegetarian family getting upset because the teacher said to the whole class "when you have your turkey on Christmas day.... " but the comment wouldn't mean the child was going to be forced to eat turkey!

I asked three times - did they specifically say to the niece you go home and pray, or was it addressed in general to the class?

If it was the first - that's out of order, considering the situation (only available school; school is aware that the family aren't christians). If it's the second - well, that's more reasonable, e.g. if the teacher said to the whole class in a general manner, in a christian school where you'd expect that kind of thing.

But they haven't answered this. I've asked THREE times

Sounds very sensible MardyBra.
I can see thepoint of contacting the secular society about community schools but it is a bit pointless with faith schools.
People put a lot of faith in the words of a 5yr old.
I know from experience that if at story time, at the end of the day, you hold up an egg box and say 'we could do with some of these, if you have any empty boxes at home could you bring them in?' that the majority of the class will have forgotten and won't even mention it, some will do exactly as asked and either bring them in or say they are sorry they didn't have any. A few will make mother empty a box because they must have it and probably one mother will go and buy some because *Miss said we had to have one and I will be in trouble without'! I would think that the 'praying homework' is similar and 'Miss' would be highly surprised to find that a comment/suggestion was an order'.I would also think that if you asked other parents about 'praying homework' they would never have heard about it.
It is a mountain out of a molehill-made by someone who actually has it 3rd hand.

If you look on the secular society website it gives advice about opting out of religious instruction in a faith school-it is a parental right.