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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

My 5 year old niece was told to go home and pray

490 replies

freyjasauntie · 21/07/2011 10:56

I am really upset that my 5 year old niece was told by her school teacher to go home and pray at bedtime. Although she goes to a C of E school, this is due to logistics of living in the country, and the school are aware that she is being raised atheist, (she was enrolled as such) with a view to letting her decide her own path when she is ready to understand what that entails.

If a Muslim teacher had told her girls to go home and wear hijab, there would be uproar, but it seems to be accepted that schools can promote Christian ideology. I have no problems with my niece being taught about Jesus, about being kind to each other, about truth telling and other so called Christian Values (which can be found in almost any religion) but I strongly object to her being told to give up something for Lent (she had no idea why she should do so), and to pray at bedtime.

Religious Education should be EDUCATION, as a qualified RE teacher, I have always presented all world religious as equally valuable, but there is a real difference between education and what I believe is insidious indoctrination.

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 21/07/2011 22:03

I think that people get upset because before they encounter a teacher most DCs find it hard to believe mother can be wrong! The next step is to realise that all adults can be wrong and you can make up your own mind.

Sirzy · 21/07/2011 22:06

But a teacher at a c of e school will present it as fact because to Christians it is fact!

Cocoflower · 21/07/2011 22:09

A 3 year old said that? Without being influenced.... Hmm

MammKernow · 21/07/2011 22:11

Coco - i really don't much care for being called a liar. Yes, dd said that without being influenced. I take it your children have never come up with any such belters then?

Cocoflower · 21/07/2011 22:13

DD has never said that nor have any of the 3-6 years olds I have worked with over the past decade or so.

MammKernow · 21/07/2011 22:19

So? Mine did. Just because you haven't experienced it does not mean I am lying.

Himalaya · 21/07/2011 22:22

Exotic - because the Cof E set up their schools to serve the ordinary people of the parish, at a time when the ordinary people of the parish were almost universally Christians.

Now that that is not the case in many parishes, to continue to serve the ordinary people of the parish they may be better off handing the management of the school over to the local authority.

Yes of course they could sell it off for prime real estate, but that wouldn't be doing much to serve the ordinary people of the parish would it?

Cocoflower · 21/07/2011 22:24

I would find it staggering a three year old would say that. Thats asking her to understand the concept of dying and a decomposing body which is not usual. And to add the "eaten by worms" is very adult-like, and again most children would not think of worms as eating human flesh as again you would need to comprehend that flesh rots.

By influncing I mean unless she heard it on TV, overheard it, attended a funeral or buried a pet.

MammKernow · 21/07/2011 22:28

Yes we have buried a pet. Plus she has lost a very close great-aunty and a great-grandmother. Also sees a lot of dead animals thanks to our 5 cats. She is v intelligent, always questioning, wanting to experiment. I am hoping it will help her to make up her own mind despite the indoctrination she receives. She is thankfully the most level-headed child her age that I know.

MammKernow · 21/07/2011 22:29

Oh, and we have a wormery so she knows worms eat old food and stuff in the ground to make compost/soil.

Cocoflower · 21/07/2011 22:29

Anyway its true, relgious or not, that we go into the ground (or get cremated)

That doesnt mean your an atheist as as everyone believes that.

The difference is do you think you have a soul which seperates to an another place.

So I still wouldnt even say that means she is an atheist at all.

elastamum · 21/07/2011 22:34

Coco, kids are surprising. Mine are much more articulate about the non existance of god than I would ever have expected. They also hold much stroger views than I do, which even i have found surprising

They have been bought up to understand from a young age and have been taken to see dead relatives, They know that when someone dies they are just dead and it isnt scary. I remeber my mother took the trouble to explain to them that she was dying and to say goodbye before she went. Because they have a completely different experience of life and death to most kids, they hold a different view, which they have been able to express from quite a young age.

MammKernow · 21/07/2011 22:34

'Atheism' isn't a religion though is it, its a lack of religion. And dd is too young to have made an informed religious opinion of her own. Hence she is not religious, and therefore is atheist. Not 'an' atheist, like its a badge or something!

Cocoflower · 21/07/2011 22:37

Well know Mamm explained her dd has experienced quite a bit of death (like your dc;s) it does make more sense. Intially it came across as out of the blue with no experience or influence, which you have to admit would be a bit surprsing!

exoticfruits · 21/07/2011 22:37

I would expect that they would think that they were best helping the ordinary people of the parish by spreading the word!
I would bet, given a vote , that the majority would keep the faith. It is quite simple-parents have the right to withdraw their DC from not only colllective worship but from RE instruction. If they all did this, there would have to be change-but they don't all do it. (and won't all do it)
Anyone would think that faith schools were unpopular!

Cocoflower · 21/07/2011 22:39

But then why did you say "she made her mind up at 3"

What does this mean?

iggagog · 21/07/2011 22:40

Theism and atheism don't refer to religion though, they are a belief that there IS a God, or the belief that there is NOT a God.

exoticfruits · 21/07/2011 22:41

I would bet that if you went in and asked, the teacher would be a bit surprised that a DC thought they were being told to pray at home. Why not go and ask what the real message was?

elastamum · 21/07/2011 22:43

What always surprises me is not that my kids have experienced a bit of death but that most parents hide their kids from it like it is something to be feared, and not shared or spoken about. I think this is a huge shame.

My mum had a little celebration with the family the weekend before she died as she said she wouldnt make her birthday a week later (she didnt). She was also athiest and quite happy to talk about her feelings about dying.

What surprised me though was the number of people who asked if she had discovered her faith on her deathbed Shock

MammKernow · 21/07/2011 22:44

elastamum - i think we have very similar children, shaped by similar experiences. Hopefully dd will be as questioning as your children Smile

And i don't want to withdraw dd from anything. As i said, it is a tiny school and i don't want her to be singled out. And tbh it would probably turn into a bigger issue then too.

elastamum · 21/07/2011 22:46

Yes MK, i dont withdraw my children from anything either. I think learning a bit of respect on all sides is really important

MammKernow · 21/07/2011 22:52

Atheism is not to do with the Christian God particularly, it is the non-belief of the existence of any deities. Which is what i meant by 'made her mind up' - i had told her a number of different beliefs, and she rejected them for what is basically the scientific actuality of death.

MammKernow · 21/07/2011 22:53

Or something. Its getting late, i've had a long day!

elastamum · 21/07/2011 22:54

Me too, off to bed, prayers optional Grin

MammKernow · 21/07/2011 22:58

Grin night night elastamum