My 5 year old niece was told to go home and pray

[freyjasauntie]

I am really upset that my 5 year old niece was told by her school teacher to go home and pray at bedtime. Although she goes to a C of E school, this is due to logistics of living in the country, and the school are aware that she is being raised atheist, (she was enrolled as such) with a view to letting her decide her own path when she is ready to understand what that entails.

If a Muslim teacher had told her girls to go home and wear hijab, there would be uproar, but it seems to be accepted that schools can promote Christian ideology. I have no problems with my niece being taught about Jesus, about being kind to each other, about truth telling and other so called Christian Values (which can be found in almost any religion) but I strongly object to her being told to give up something for Lent (she had no idea why she should do so), and to pray at bedtime.

Religious Education should be EDUCATION, as a qualified RE teacher, I have always presented all world religious as equally valuable, but there is a real difference between education and what I believe is insidious indoctrination.

While you at it OP, I would def be arguing that since you are not a christian and are not happy with your niece being part of it all - you fully expect a teacher to be present over/on christmas/easter to teach your niece. Or do you take that holiday anyway.

Nuttychic - what are you talking about??

Why is it that posters start having a pop at athiest parents saying well, why do you have christmas etc??

Given christmas is a pagan midwinter festival hijacked by christianity, now fronted by a red suited bloke dreamed up by the coca cola company, I dont see why it cant be a holiday for anyone who chooses!

Easter too, ancient pagan festival of fertility. The clue's in the name.

Ignore the "why do you celebrate Christmas?" rubbish.

It is so obviously wrong to have faith schools at all, and so obviously wrong that all state schools are Christian schools that rational arguments don;t work. People have to resort to such pathetic barrel scraping.

The idea that dn has decided that there is no god and we go in the ground and get eaten by worms was taught to her. You are doing your fair share of influenceing her beliefs or lack of in God, You say that you want her to learn and make up her own informed decision but are really against any one else having influence on her eg. christian teacher, sharing there informed ideas if they don't match yours.

The op at no point mentioned she was a pagan at all. So no need to be celebrating christmas, pagan festival, jewish holidays or anything.

I am NOT a christan myself and I most certainly do take christmas and easter. My children go to a christan school but I would never have the cheek to choose a christan school for them and then wail when they are asked to pray!

Does nobody get that there is NO OTHER CHOICE OF SCHOOL in many rural communities??

"The church was the only body interested in educating the poor"

Actually non-believers were banned from the English universities (I'm not sure about Scottish universities) for a long time, and also barred from the professions, which may have contributed to there not being a vibrant educated non-religious presence in the UK for those relevant centuries. Non-conformists and non-believers often had to keep quiet, or emigrate.

And the "church money and lands" wasn't all acquired through fervent believers' choice. There was an element of forced church attendance and tithing, part of the feudal village system for centuries. It's hardly surprising that much of the country's wealth and education system ended up in the hands of the church, given that alternatives were quashed.

"elastamum Fri 22-Jul-11 10:29:27
Does nobody get that there is NO OTHER CHOICE OF SCHOOL in many rural communities??"

Which is exactly why people saying we should ban them or force people to pay for them is most ridiculous and short-sighted

I'm a bit surprised that the church supplied education long before the state were persuaded it was a good thing and then people think it perfectly OK for the state to say 'you had a good idea-now we will take it off you!' With no mention of how they are going to pay for the purchase of the buildings or putting in the money that the church contributes.

I would actually like my DCs to have a grounding in Christianity, which is the culture of their country. I am not in the least bothered whether they become Christians, atheists, Buddhists etc, faith or lack of it, is a private matter but I would like them to be able to go into the National Gallery and understand the paintings, understand the references in literature etc etc.
It seems very narrow minded to close everything off-because mother made up her mind years ago and as she gave birth her DCs must agree with her!

I think that you will find that many Christians have agnostic and atheist parents and vice versa. No one has every explained to me, to my satisfaction, why it matters.

Nobody has suggested that they wish to remove their child. And the childs mother has adopted a perfectly reasonable stance on this.

But the LEA should have a responsibility to provide education for all faiths or none, something which they clearly fail to do. The option of move house / home ed is a typical middle class mumsnetter response, just not available to many parents in the real world. As a working LP, its certainly not an option avaiable to me. On the basis you describe Faith schools really shouldnt be getting LEA money, unless an alternative exists

Noone has taken up my suggestion of canvassing the parents.
Most schools where there is no choice are rural and they are small. Most parents have 2 DC there ,and some more, so there are not many parents. Ask the question.
If the majority feel the same way I'm sure that pressure can be brought to bear to at least 'tone down' the faith side.
I would be very surprised if you got majority support.
I find, knowing quite a lot of faith schools, that even if they had no choice, the parents like the caring ethos. It is only on MN, where like minded people are venting, that you get the impression that people are unhappy. I would say that some are very happy, some are very unhappy and the vast majority are not bothered.

You contradict yourself though elastamum. On one hand

"the LEA should have a responsibility to provide education for all faiths or none,"

and then you say

"Faith schools really shouldnt be getting LEA money"

If the LEA provided schools they could tell the faith schools they were not getting funding. The state can't afford it.

If faith schools were not also state schools paid for by the taxpayer then that would be fine. But they are. They are state schools. And it means that Christians have a wider choice of state schools than non Christians. How cn that be fair?

Yes, yet a percentage of those tax payers will be religious so they should have a right to as faith school.Its their money paying for it too.

I ask again; if we privatise all Faith schools then many people in rural areas will have no school at all if they really are that remote unless they can afford the fees.

Faith will become a provision of the elitisit and the rich.

Coco - only a minority, though. Why should the minority prevent the majority having access to local schools? I understand why we are where we are - because it was the CofE that set up local schools originally before free state education existed. But that doesn't mean we can't change the system now to cater for the needs of people in the 21st Century as opposed to the Victorians.

How are the minority (and is that just a guess?) preventing the majority?

Its pretty clear many athesits are in Faith schools; starting from the OP's post down!

But we are still a Christian country so as such we should offer the option of having a Christian education in a C of E or Catholic school. Ideally there should also be another option in an area but that does not provide an argument to get rid of faith schools altogether.

I know plenty of parents who are non practising Christians who make the choice to send there child to a faith school because they like the ethos of the school and the Christian principles.