to hate people using family/school/university connections to get things others can't

[moikla]

My sister has got my brother an internship with her for the next few weeks as he's on holiday from university. I know its my brother but I hate this sort of thing and this type of priveledge. DH says its the way of the world and that you need to take advantage of whatever connections you've got.

drawing a line between unacceptable out and out nepotism and acceptable levels of helping people you know is difficult. We all locate the line in different places and the location will always be arbitrary.

The most significant influences in our lives are our parents. Should dh decline to talk to dds about maths, science and engineering because that gives them an unfair advantage over kids whose parents know diddly squat? Should I have declined an invitation from a university friend to take dds to visit a tv studio to see a programme being made?

It is impossible to eradicate advantages that fall to people by pure luck - and most of them do. However it's important that we're all aware of this.We do need to decide where our own personal line lies - and decline to cross it. If we are in a position to extend opportunities we should do our best to do so to those who might not have such easy access to them. If we are taking up opportunities we should decide if a line is being crossed and have the strength to decline the opportunity if it is.

As a society we need to pursue equality through levelling up - not dumbing down. And our response to the problem needs to be proportionate. If every 2-week work experience was subject to comprehensive equal ops advertising and recruitment processes the industry in question would be buried in bureaucracy (and the work placements would vanish)

I haven't heard anything that sound slike sour grapes and I haven't seen a single person on a moral highground (one slightly ranty post perhaps).

Yes, it is how the world works. And it doesn't really bother me one bit. There have been some very mild musings about the unfairness of it, that's all.

Making out that those of us who have midly acknowledged unfairness are somehow ridiculously over-principled losers who cannot cope with the harsh world, is an over-reaction to say the least.

Do you want to hear all about how I have impressed people and got all sorts of jobs and good references, queen? Or would that just be too tedious

YABU - i would rather work with someone whom has been personally recomemnded to me and i can trust the recommendation (character of the person) then with a complete stranger.

Also, family before anyone else i say

I think that it helps to find out that life is unfair early on. I have found that mine have gone all through the education system, reasonably successfully, and then BANG-they hit the real world! The real world doesn't necessarily want them-the world doesn't owe them a living. You have to get out and find it for yourself. If I can use contacts I would-unfortunately I haven't been the least use!

"I agree exotic too many people sit around, bemaoning how unfair the world is, and using that as an excuse to not do much, or try and get ahead."

This is what I think.

DH is trying to get a better job as we speak. He has no connections at all, just his own experience and hard-won qualifications.

However is trying his absolute hardest for his family and Im glad he is not one of these "well life is so unfair for me, everyone else is just lucky so I wont try and think the world owes me a living" types.

YABU. Totally unreasonable.

Within the law and so long as it doesn't harm others you should help out your friends and family where you can. It's not a bad thing but a positive one. It part of karma. Don't be bitter.

I have found that people's careers are largely due to luck with the right connections or simply being in the right place at the right time.

I would use connections. As both I and my OH come from very poor families they did not have any connections we could use.

However, I don't think it is a good way to run society. It inevitably means that it is not necessarily the best person who gets the job, internship or training place. And this can cause real suffering. Just think of the head of FIMA who seemed hopelessly out of his depth during the New Orleans flooding. He had no real relevant experience, but appeared to have got the job on the basis of connections.

is there not a problem that many children (teens) are not taught about networking or how to do it? It was never even discussed at the school i went. i had no and still dont have any connections.

Is it prious? who said about her 2 friends at uni, maybe one of them new how to netwrok and the other had no idea it was even important. i would happily hedge my bets thats about 90% of young people have never even been told any of this

Arent' the right connections just the start? My son has a summer job because he was recommended by a teacher - who would not have recommended him if he didn't think he was up to it as it would then reflect back on the teacher, iyswim
I have some maternity cover work because I know the person whose job it is and she is confident that I will do her job well. It's not just about knowing people, but also about being capable. If the op's brother isn't up to the job, he won't be invited back or get a good reference.

knittedbreast - for better or worse, things have changed a great deal in terms of students being told about networking: IME, they're constantly, constantly told they've got to do it, and often also given pointers on when and where they should do so...
which is, of course, rather different to gaining knowledge about how to network - making themselves pleasant and useful... But then maybe some things really can't be 'taught' (or shouldn't have to be at thid point).

OP - surely there's a huge difference between 'using' contacts via friends and university, both of which indicate something about skills and integrity, and relying on family...

That said, I've known several people who've tried to go into the same (very competitive) professions as other members of their families. There is no denying that this smooths their path enormously, but generally it seems to be the case that ultimately where skills and intelligence are needed, those who don't really have it tend to sink fairly quickly.

even the most basic "how to get a job" leaflets that were knocking around when I was a teenager (20+ years ago) talked about networking. some kids might not bother looking for and reading such leaflets (or the on-line equivalent) but there's a limit to how much hand-holding schools etc can do.

I reckon everyone use's connections to an extent.

Even if it's just getting chummy with the bus driver so he will drop you off outside your house!

Everyone does it.

The OP's criticism tends to be levelled, in practice, at a particular segment of society - "old school tie" and so on.

No one blinks an eye if a builder gets his son a start on the same site as him, or if a family corner shop employs family members instead of recruiting via the job centre.

In other words, the point may be fari, but it normally gets skewed against "them" and never applies to "us" (whoever "we" might be).

BTW I have got where I am entirely without the benefits of "contacts" - but, if my contacts became relevant in the future, I would use them like a shot. It's only getting a foot in the door, isn't it? If you can't keep up or fail to deliver, you're back on this side of the door before you know it, whoever your dad went to school with.

Making connections is how most jobs work, if you happen to have something useful family wise so be it, same goes for going to the same pub, club or society as somebody else. I have no problem with people making these connections and I don't think fairness comes into it. Where fairness and nepotism is an issue is where people get and keep a job that they aren't qualified for or don't work for just because of family connection and this undermines another person who would otherwise do this job properly
What I mean is if you would otherwise be sacked and you are only keeping your job because of your family connections then that is wrong.
Btw I got my job without family connections as nobody else in it does anything remotely like me

There is a huge difference between networking and nepotism, and I think this is becoming confused on this thread.

Networking is a normal part of working life - you can hear of a job via connections, but get it fairly on your own merits.

Nepotism ("nepot" is Romanian for "nephew", by the way) - which the OP describes, getting a job/internship purely through connections, and not on your merits - and also as described in my earlier post - is just, plain, wrong.

Precisely.

Given that I make a living as a freelance journalist - not something it's very easy to do in these recession-hit times - I think I can safely say I am a bloody good networker. I would, however, hate to think I'd only got my Oxford degree because my parents had pulled strings for me.

I don't think it's as easy to draw such a distinct line. there are many acts that fall into a vast grey area inbetween. for example, (probably as the OP's case) creating an internship/work eperience opportunity specifically because someone you know and trust is interested and has approached you. You may not have the resources or inclination to go through a detailed fair recruitment process, so you have decided not to have an intern - the benefit to you/your business outweighs the cost. but someone with a decent cv who you know calls you and offers themselves. the reality is that in some cases the options are - no internship/work experience for anyone; or a one-off for a specific individual.

this is, of course, different, from a situation where you have decided you need/want an intern, you have the resources to advertise, and you go give the job to a less qualified person whose mother you were at university with.

At each end of the spectrum it will be clear whether or not the acts are nepotistic - but lots of situations will be difficult to call.

I agree that some poeple do spend too much time complaining about how unfair the world is, instead of looking at ways to improve their lives.

Internships get my hackles up anyway - you need to have rich mummy and/or daddy to fund your daily living expenses while you work for 3-6 months unpaid. Regardless of contacts, it's simply something that won't be available to those in low income families, as their parents can't afford it.

"Internships get my hackles up anyway - you need to have rich mummy and/or daddy to fund your daily living expenses while you work for 3-6 months unpaid. Regardless of contacts, it's simply something that won't be available to those in low income families, as their parents can't afford it." This is true - but, if not the parents, who SHOULD pay for them? The businesses are unlikely to - they would get very little in return from their money. And the Government could only do it by cutting something else.

Perhaps we need to accept that internships are fundamentally unfair and leave it at that.