to hate people using family/school/university connections to get things others can't

[moikla]

My sister has got my brother an internship with her for the next few weeks as he's on holiday from university. I know its my brother but I hate this sort of thing and this type of priveledge. DH says its the way of the world and that you need to take advantage of whatever connections you've got.

EVERYONE has connections at some level or another.

on the one hand people say that nepotism is terrible and awful and should not be allowed...

on the other hand, if the local butcher says he's training up his son to one day take over the family business everybody says 'aww, how lovely, how good there are still 'family' firms out there'

and then the boundary between nepotism and networking can often be very very blurred... i have gained no advantage from any family member in my professional life, but i have many contacts and keep in touch with people i work with who may have jobs in future, i asked tutors for advice when i was a student and they sometimes tipped me off about openings... i am going freelance and as a sole trader chasing very small accounts, almost all my work will be through contacts rather than fully open tender (OJEU or similar).

It's not so much to do with your son, or anyone else's, being up to it. It's about him being the best person to do a job.

fluffles - I know exactly what you mean.
DH and I have no contacts from our family or school years but in our professional lives we have met swathes of people. These are now contacts i suppose or put another way people we know.

Are we meant to pretend we don't know these people?

And ought we now begrudge those who do have contacts from school or family?
Wouldn't that be just bitterness? Where would it get me?

It is how the world works and it is awful for people starting out with no connections to use, but has happened forever.

DH got his cousin a job at his place of work, for a job she is vastly overqualified for as a LLB graduate (Office Junior in a Law firm) but she is working her socks off and impressing and building her own contacts.

I'd help my family and friends and I do, even though DH and I had no help and have built our own contacts. I use all my contacts in my everyday job anyway, thats what Linkedin, networking groups etc are there for!

The thing is, it often works well for the company doing this - there are lots of uni students looking for internships, a lot have similar backgrounds, qualifications and experiences, what do you use for distinguish? A personal recommendation from someone is a good way to get a staff member who's good - not just good at interviewing.

Also, the person who's got them the job often takes personal responsibility for the staff member, if your brother wasn't pulling his weight, your sister would be having words and putting pressure on him to sort it out as it's her reputation as well as his on the line. (Because if you recommend someone and they turn out to be crap, your judgement looks bad and your recommendations would be ignored in the future).

What do you use to distinguish? An interview of course. I've found it to be a bit of a myth that there are all these people out there who are good at interviewing and crap at the job.

YABU most people help out their family in whatever way they can. She'll make sure he does a good job or she'll get a rocket up her behind for recomending him. I do wonder why you see this an issue though, sibling jealousy?

The faith people have in parents acknowledging their children aren't pulling their weight and kicking them into shape, is touching.

I haven't seen it happen.

sorry :)

I think it really depends if it was a formal internship or not. If it is a formal internship with a formal application process that your brother has bypassed, then yes, I can see that it is unfair. However, it seems likely that this will be an informal experience, meaning that your sister has set it up specifically for your brother, it isn?t like he is taking anyone else?s place (chances are that if your brother wasn?t there then nobody would be). It will also be very obvious to future employers if this is an informal internship, and they wouldn?t turn down a more qualified candidate because your brother has done it.

People tend to focus on the middle classes and upper middle classes getting internships via high-faluting social/family connections, or seemingly blatant nepotism in the media/arts, but they are less inclined to care when some working class lad gets a job as an apprentice to his uncle who is a plumber, or works weekends for his Dad erecting scaffolding, or whatever.

This happens across all layers of society - always has, always will. It's easy to think that 'privilege' of opportunity goes to those who are already privileged, but it's all relative really.

I know several families of working class people done good, whose children will have well paid jobs for life on a plate, in spite of being not terribly bright or self-motivated, just because their parents or grandparents have made a success of a business, and want to pass it down, 'in-house' as it were. but is seems to me that people only begrudge this if the recipients of said 'jobs on a plate' are posh and well educated. If they are 'muck and brass' no-one noticed or cares.

I hope all the people objecting to this never accept favours from friends or family?

notices not noticed. Sorry.

I think there is a world of difference between using family connections and those made at school or university to be honest.

You tend to get into university on your own merit, so no string pulling there, and the contacts you make there depend on the level of effort you put it. Two friends of mine did the same degree and finished last year, both with a 2:1. One of them slogged her guts out volunteering at all the department conventions, making tea and the like, and volunteering as general dogsbody/researcher for some of the professors. She also attended symposiums and conferences atotheruniversities if they coincided with her visiting that city. The other didn't. Guess which one has now been accepted to Columbia for a masters, with funding from the CDC, defered for a year so she can finish out her research assistant position in Thailand? Guess which one is living back with her parents and working at a pub?

BigHairyGruffalo- How would an employer know whether it was a formal or informal internship? If he put he did an internship at X company on his CV how would they know assuming he didn't tell them that his sister got it for him.

If it was in a sector like law/accountancy/banking, it would be really obvious because these firms/companies tend to do formal placements and the difference between the two would be obvious. Also, within the sector, recruiters will generally know which companies offer formal placements or not, and it is really easy for them to find out if it has been formal or informal.

YABU and you sound jealous

I'm not jealous at all, I was just using them as an example

Wasn't going to contribute, but you've been accused of being bitter and jealous so feel like I should say, in my opinion, YANBU at all.

I don't see whats wrong with helping family members to be honest, do familys not exist to help each other. Your sister will also have him in her back pocket for a while too.

Years ago I applied for a job. It asked for x years of relevant experience in a very specialised field, which I had. It asked for a good working knowledge of a language, which I had. Two male colleagues applied. They had similar experience to me, but not directly relevant to the job, which mine was.

Neither had any knowledge whatsoever of the language. Both got an interview because the hiring manager was a former colleague of theirs. Both were shown the exam paper before the exam, which formed part of the hiring process. One withdrew at this point, as he said this was unfair to other candidates. The other went ahead. He did well in the exam, as he had been able to swot up on the questions. He was asked at interview if he thought he would be able to learn the language quickly (he had made no effort despite living in the country for five years). He said yes. He was asked if he could learn about this new field quickly. He said yes. He got the job, as he said "because old Mick, whom I've known for yonks, wanted to work with me again."

I asked why I didn't get an interview. I was told that the relevant experience had to have been obtained "not as a civilian." This wasn't mentioned in the job spec. The person who got the job really struggled with it for a long time, and was carried by his line manager and the junior people in the office (which they resented - understandably). Better suited people could have got the job and hit the ground running. But it didn't happen because Old Mick wanted to work with his mate.

Explain to me how that is fair. For a net salary of $7,000 per month. On top of Old Mick's mate's pension of $40,000 per annum.

yanbu, i am surprised at so many people defending a system that stifles social mobility so badly. yes, everyone has connections, but some have far more limited connections that others. but perhaps if the children of hairdressers want to stay as hairdressers (nothing against hairdressers by the way) and the children of politicians want to run the country and it keeps everyone in their place then that's ok then?
It annoys me that my children will not be judged on their merit but by their (probable lack of) connections, due to their background which is not really their fault!

by the way i am really struggling to come up with a time when i or my brother got a job due to friends or family connections. i just applied for them as normal. One time i lost out to someone who had shared a hosue with the interviewer at university.