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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that you can't watch this and still want to buy eggs?

228 replies

Tollund · 18/07/2011 14:39

Just to follow on from my epic veggie thread last week - it got me thinking and doing a bit more research and I stumbled across this .

It made me sob, I mean it's really upset me. I've stopped buying eggs from the supermarket about 6 months ago and just get free range from the farmer's market now, but having seen this I think I can only get them from a woman up the road who has a some of chickens and sells anything she has left over. I'd really like to keep chickens myself but we don't have the space at the moment unfortunately.

AIBU to think that you can't not rethink what you do after seeing that?

OP posts:
NoHunIntended · 19/07/2011 17:49

It is barbaric what humans do to other animals. I will never ever understand how meat-eaters and those who consume dairy/eat eggs can do so. Taking a life, just so your tastebuds get what they are used to. HOW can you not care?

Andrewofgg · 19/07/2011 18:01

Tollund - It's not so much that I feel entitled to eat meat five or seven days a week as that I feel as entitled to choose my own diet as the vegetarians are and should be. Keeping food as cheap as possible is at the heart of every decent or half-decent social policy and it is wrong to make an exception for one sort of food because some people choose not to eat it.

QueenofJacksDreams · 19/07/2011 18:04

I've watched it, its not nice but not many parts of nature itself are. I'll still buy eggs and enjoy them. To me its more important to appreciate your food and the animals it came from hence why I eat nose to tail/everything but the squeak nothing goes to waste from meat in my house what we can't eat the dog will.

Thats more respectful imo than proclaiming yourself a vegetarian for animal cruelty reasons but still drinking milk and eating eggs at least with my way everything gets used and nothing of the animal that would probably still be killed goes to waste.

Riveninside · 19/07/2011 18:04

thing is Andrew, its often at others expense. Chopping down forests to raise cattle to feed the wests insatiable need. Feeding grains bought from poor countries to aniamls so we can have more meat.
I dont think we have that right.

yummybutterbiscuit · 19/07/2011 18:14

I eat eggs. And shock horror, I will by the cheapest eggs, and don't care if the are caged or organic or whatever the buzz word is just now. I don't want to watch any videos because on the budget I have just now, eggs are a source of protein etc that I need, and can't afford anything but the very cheapest.

Does this make me a bad person?

Riveninside · 19/07/2011 18:18

lentils are cheaper than even cheap eggs...

Needsaholiday · 19/07/2011 18:37

yummybutterbiscuit, there are plenty of sources of protein which a) cost less than eggs and b) don't involve cruelty to animals.

ohnoudidnt · 19/07/2011 19:10

yummybutterbiscuit ,If you could afford to BUY free range,I very much doubt you would anyway considering you dont care if they are caged.
I bet you have sky or smoke though dont you?

ohnoudidnt · 19/07/2011 19:13

As I have said before,budget is the usual excuse for not buying free range.If I could not afford free range then I would certainly do without something else.You a talking a difference in PENCE!

Andrewofgg · 19/07/2011 19:33

Riven, then don't do it.

Some people take the same line about over-population and think we don't have the right to have a large family. I thought that a long time ago when I was a foolish young man - I have stopped being one of those since - but I grew out of it.

And you know: the same could be said of land and crops used for providing alcohol and tobacco, both of which we need a lot less than we need eggs or meat. I suppose I had better stop there before I give more ammunition to Nanny Controller!

We are not going to agree, are we?

Ilythia · 19/07/2011 19:49

I wasn't just talking to you tollund, but feel free to think so.

To clarify, you come and post this link, which had you titled it 'to think this is barbaric/not nice/inhumane' woudl have been one thing, but no, you title it in such a way as to accuse EVERYONE who watches it of being unfeeling and lacking in empathy if they don't immediately convert to vegetarianism on viewing this film.
That's a very simplistic, antagonistic view. It's like you feel you are saving the poor ignoprant meat eaters from their fate. Some of us are more than well aware of what happens in teh farming industry. I find it very informing that a lot of the people on this thread, myself included, grew up around animals/small farms and are NOT vegatarians. By your logic, and the logic of some people on the thread, we shoudl all have been so appalled by what we saw as children that we should immediately have denounced meat.

But we haven't.

NoHunIntended · 19/07/2011 19:52

Yes, and that baffles me, Iythia, how you can see these precious animals lined up for slaughter, and be ok with that?

yummybutterbiscuit · 19/07/2011 19:58

Actually ohnoudidnt, I don't have sky, I have freeview, and don't smoke. Trust me when I say I'm on a budget.

nojustificationneeded · 19/07/2011 20:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DogsBestFriend · 19/07/2011 20:07

My god is this still running?

Ilythia, let me say it instead of Tollund. To eat meat is to be inhumane, uncivilised and barbaric.

In my opinion. :o

Like NoHunIntended I'm baffled that you can see those precious animals lined up for slaughter and be ok with that.

I'm the Grandaughter of a master butcher - the old fashioned type, sawdust on the floor and pheasant hanging from the doorframe. Grandad was my mentor and my hero and I miss him dearly. We were very close and as a young child there was many a Monday morning that we'd be in Smithfield market as the sun rose, buying meat for the shop.

I learned a hell of a lot thanks to my precious Grandad... and have been vegetarian or vegan for over 30 years now.

Andrewofgg · 19/07/2011 20:14

Well, DBF, you obviously feel superior to the great bulk of the people you live among. Bully for you, but does it not get tiresome when you have to deal day by day with inhumane, uncivilised, and barbaric people who don't even realise how much better you are than they?

DogsBestFriend · 19/07/2011 20:15

No, Andrew, you haven't become tiresome at all.

Yet.

Ilythia · 19/07/2011 20:22

Because I believe (and this is what I believe, and therefore just as valid as what you believe) that humans are the top of the food chain, and we are here because we are a top predator. And the top predator eats animals further down the food chain.

No, it's not nice, I wouldn't sit here with a glass of wine and watch it for a bit of fun, don't get me wrong, BUT I understand where my meat comes from, how it is raised etc.

I also do not eat meat everyday. Apart from DH we only eat meat 3 or 4 times a week. This is because I actually agree that meat is a privilege, not a right, but it is a privilege that, due to where I live (ie the West) and my earnings, I am able to have a few more times a week.

Andrewofgg · 19/07/2011 20:27

Thank you, DBF. I'm actually much nicer than I act on this forum. I expect you are too. We'd both have to be!

DogsBestFriend · 19/07/2011 20:31

:o @ Andrew.

Ilythia · 19/07/2011 20:37

Grin @ you two. You'll start being nice to each other next Wink

TalkinPeace2 · 19/07/2011 20:48

Please note that the commonly quoted data on the amount of land needed to produce beef is based on USDA figures for feed lot cattle
NOT
on English slow raised, grass fed, free range beef.

I don't eat soya. I dont expect the animals I eat to have to eat soya.
I like them to have eaten grass and am willing to pay accordingly.
I'm also happy to eat offal on the tongue to tail approach of waste not want not
BUT I will not sacrifice the English and European countryside to agro prairie

MoreBeta · 19/07/2011 21:33

Well this turned out to be a much more contentious thread than I expected.

Ethical issues in food production are extremely complex and to be honest without an enormous investment of time and serious effort in digging out data I really think the vast majority of consumers dont have a hope in hell of making an informed choice. That is one of the reasons the organic movement gained traction because many people really wanted a quality standard they could trust without the effort of finding out about food quality, origin, welfare, environmental impact.

The food industry saw this and responded by introducing all sorts of competing 'quality marks' and label descriptions such as Little Red Tractor, Freedom Food, RSPCA Standard, Fair Trade, free range, and a multitude of competing organic licencing authorities,

Consumers were even more confused as a result. Add in concepts like food miles, packaging issues and CO2 emissions and it becomes overwhelming.

For this reason, I really would not criticise anyone for the food choices they make. Even growing your own veg in a local authority allotment has ethical issues as you are using land in an urban area that could feasibly be better used to build social housing on.

Blindcavesalamander · 19/07/2011 23:50

I've just come back to this thread tonight to add something my mother told me when I described OPs chick film...She asked if they were being gassed or minced and said that they used to just be dropped into mincers alive. I apologise if you already knew that or if it was discussed on the film. I didn't have my ear phones on and I can't bear to watch it again. One poster asked "What did you think happened to them?". Well, I knew they were killed but I didn't know it was done so casually, as if they weren't even alive or able to feel pain. I am not a vegetarian (I was for many years) but it's not just about killing, it's about methods, respect and attempting to cause the least suffering possible. It seems that the chicks were not given any consideration whatsoever.

SpecialFriedRice · 20/07/2011 00:11

I agree with your last point Blindcavessalamander I think there needs to be more empathy when comapnies are decided how to get rid of their chicks. I do find it upsetting they have to be killed, but I can understand from a business viewpoint why they are. But mincing alive is just barbaric. The gassing, although resulting in death, seems to be a far nicer way to go. Assuming that is they just kind of nod off and the gas doesnt do anything else. I know people say the mincing is instant, that doesn't change the FEAR the chicks may feel.

I know if I had to chose between being chucked into a mincer or being gassed, I'd much prefer just to fall asleep and never wake up.

On a different point, something else that saddens me about eggs is that the hens that are laying them don't even get to live a full life. They lay eggs until they are 2 at most and are then killed for their meat. If left alone chickens will live 5-8 years, possibly longer.