to think that you can't watch this and still want to buy eggs?

[Tollund]

Just to follow on from my epic veggie thread last week - it got me thinking and doing a bit more research and I stumbled across this .

It made me sob, I mean it's really upset me. I've stopped buying eggs from the supermarket about 6 months ago and just get free range from the farmer's market now, but having seen this I think I can only get them from a woman up the road who has a some of chickens and sells anything she has left over. I'd really like to keep chickens myself but we don't have the space at the moment unfortunately.

AIBU to think that you can't not rethink what you do after seeing that?

Synthetic Taurine
Yup, petrochemical industry.
DAFT - if you want a vegan pet, get a tortoise
it is utterly hypocritical to purport to be vegan and have any pet that eats meat / meat products
that includes goldfish : fish food is of course ground up fish - that's why cats nick it

Rescue battery hens

There is an argument that rescuing battery hens keeps up a demand for the supply of said hens. The farmers get the eggs, and then get to feel warm and fuzzy as the hens are taken off by well meaning keepers and therefore passing the responsibility onwards. And battery hens still start out as eggs, half of which will be male.

Tollund fifty years ago meat was a treat for many in this country and I know whereof I speak. No, I don't want to see meat every day become a luxury item for the rich again. I have no quarrel with vegetarians and vegans, it's their business, but I expect them not to be quarrelsome with me because I choose to eat meat and some of them are.

Chickens that same argument is felt by a puppy farm campaigner I know, both about farmed dogs and strays and particularly wrt rescuing Irish dogs where the dog neglect problem is worse by far than here in the UK when we have more than enough strays to deal with here.

I can see the point entirely. It's a moral dilemma I don't have an answer for.... I just know, as one who has been involved in the rescue of many many dogs in both countries that I can't just let the Irish dogs who are suffering right here and now tonight die tomorrow whilst I'm fighting alongside that lady in campaigning for change. The same applies to the argument for chickens.

Ilythia Do you agree with the way the animals are treated in the video?

It's a tough one, DBF. The problem with rescue hens is that they generally come complete with health issues, might not survive the shock of being rescued etc yet are frequently 'sold' as being easy/ideal first hens. They are neither, ime. Hugely rewarding to see them flourish when it works, but....I don't know. I wonder if the allowing them to be rehomed falsely leads consumers in to thinking that the hens do a hard year, and then get a happy retirement. It softens the welfare issue perhaps?

Bloody hell. I really mangled the English language there. Apologies.

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows Where is it kindest to buy eggs?

If you are talking purely about the hen welfare, it's best if you can buy eggs from someone you know with a back garden flock or a local farm that keeps a small flock. Large commercial flocks will always, IMO, have welfare issues. However, if you don't live next to a farm, or have a friend who keeps hens, I honestly don't know. Favorelles once very fairly pointed out that large commercial free range flocks may not be nearly as idyllic as they are perceived.

I am not, btw, meaning to come across as a smug bastard. I don't have to buy eggs, because I keep exceptionally spoiled chickens. I am well aware that if you live in a flat, or housing which doesn't allow hens, or a million other reasons, you can't just buy chickens and waft about like it's 'The Good Life'. I am genuinely unsure of where you can buy eggs from, say, a supermarket and be guaranteed high welfare standards.

Better to rescue than to let them die until that day, one day, when no hens are exploited.

And Favorelles is absolutely right.

Has anyone heard of Noble Foods?

Perhaps you've heard of their brand,

Not so fecking happy for the poor bloody chickens. :(

Commercial farming is not compatible with high welfare standards, IMO. As soon as we started rearing animals in a factory setting it all went wrong. Once you lose touch of where your food comes from, anything becomes acceptable. I do think that the tide is turning, though. More and more people are choosing to buy local produce from known sources, and making informed choices. More people are keeping hens, not just for eggs but also for meat. I am no longer the only chicken keeper in my neighbourhood . I am not a vegetarian, bit I sure as he'll eat a lot less meat than I used to. I think that eating meat daily is a recent luxury, and it's time may be passing.

"Better to rescue than to let them die until that day, one day, when no hens are exploited."

That's how I feel, Riven, about chickens, dogs and any other creature which is similarly treated though as I said I do see Chicken's point very much too.

Perhaps the benefit of feeling as we do, Riven, is that we can discuss it and educate people (no smuggery intended). Many's a time I've said something about animal welfare practice, such as, for example, that strays are only given 7 days in law to stay in a pound before they can be killed and that so often they are killed as soon as that time is up. Another example is the plight of racing greyhounds, so often killed when their racing career ends at age 4 or 5.

The good thing that comes of saying these things is, as I have found often, that folk will say to me, "Oh I didn't know that... " and some of them have gone on to adopt a dog from a rescue which has come from a pound or to adopt a greyhound. Tiny steps, they don't change the world, but they change those dogs' worlds.

I'm not criticising, Riven. I totally understand the desire to rescue the poor bald critters. I rather cynically expect that getting people to donate a quid or so per bird, and then take them home is a damn sight cheaper for the commercial poultry factories than paying someone to dispose of the birds, though. And they get the good press. Like I said, I don't know what the answer is. We've made meat cheap, and we throw it away.

To the people who don't buy milke:

Dairy farming isn't inherently cruel. If you're concerned only buy British Organic Milk, and don't ever buy cheap milk or from corner shops. The better it tastes the better the life of the cow. My dad and brother LOVE their cows and treat them beautifully and have 200 very chilled out cows who live on pasture unless it's less healthy for them to do so (ie, in winter).

Note, supermarkets have driven down the price of milk which puts massive pressure on dairy farmers to do intensive farming which is less healthy (like US dairy farming which makes me sick). Put pressure on supermarkets NOT to drive the price of milk down and you'll get tastier milk and happier cows.

Thats great.Thank you.There is a local farm I could go to buy from.

First thing I want to say is that I do not have any axe to grind with people who choose to be vegan or vegetarian. I also want to say that I am strongly against animal cruelty.

However, I am a meat eater and as an ex-farmer I fully accept that most male animals either have to be culled at birth or castrated then slaughtered at a young age. I am not a farmer now and have a cockerel. He is very noisy, purely ornamental and has no comemrcial use. No farmer, could keep millions of cockerels. They have to be culled. Gasing is not cruel and involves no pain - much as you experience undergoing an anaesthetic. I am less clear about how humane maceration is.

Most male pigs, sheep and cattle are not culled but castrated instead and then fattened. All meat eaters have eaten male animals that have been castrated and then culled at a young age.

Meat/eggs/milk would be incredibly expensive if these practices were not carried out. My only caveat is that culling/slaughter is humane.

MoreBeta, can I ask what you farmed? And did you sell to supermarkets? I'm just wondering if you agree that there is pressure on farmers to intensively farm in order to drive prices down. Is there a way around it, do you think?

"Dairy farming isn't inherently cruel."

WTF?

woowa, animals are killed to provide milk for humans to drink.

KILLED!

That's before you even consider the distress caused to cows, sentient beings, who have their babies taken from them.

The whole point of veganism for those who practice it for the animal welfare reasons which I do is that we do not consider it acceptable for animals to suffer or die in order to provide us with food. Either you have overlooked that, you are being naive or you are being deceitful.

Dairy farming info on abuse

I wonder whether "organic" is best for animal products
I know of dairy herds that are organic so long as the cows are not dosed up for the month before
so alternate
daft
and organic veg from the other side of the world is NEVER better than local traceably sourced

The MAIN thing is to be informed. I make sure my kids know which bit of the animal they are eating - even in sausages and burgers - and understand the concept of good welfare standards

Traceability is the key.
If the farm cannot be traced and / or will not let you look at its animals, boycott that farm and buy from the farm that will.
Only then will farmers be FORCED to improve their game.

UK veal is an EXCELLENT use of male calves by the way.

DBF, as others have said, you can't be a dog owner and still claim you have the moral high ground over non-vegetarians.

Owning a dog is perpetuating the dog breeding industry. The more dogs are bred, the more other animals need to be farmed and killed to feed them.

Not all dogs are from breeders, ShellyBoobs. All of the animals I've ever had (including cats, dogs, rabbits, guineapigs and hamsters) have been from rescue centres. NOT perpetuating the dog breeding industry at all.

I'm afraid I can't watch the film as I ended up :( but I am a vegan and have been more many years, so I'm not supporting the disgraceful egg industry.