To not understand how people force toddlers to be restrained

[kitkey]

This is about some response on another thread about forcing a toddler to sit in a trolley - I have heard it before and people say the same about highchairs. I have two bogs and never have I been able to force them in a trolley seat or highchair against their will. Firstly the straps are often just map belt so if the stand up are useless - if you keep making them sit down time after time - you get nowhere and then they scream the place down caused annoyance to others. I just don't get how people can just say "just sit them in the trolley" or " pop them in the highchair". Are these children just less determined and less naughty or is there a technique to restraining a raging toddler!

I don't agree that all it takes is firmness, 'a look', body language etc. I don't give in but had one very determined toddler who i really had a mammoth struggle with at times with car seat, trolleys, buggy, and plane belts. He had to be physically forced at times and looks, tone, body language just wouldn't have worked at that age.

Screaming is actually an advantage they have to draw breath which means relaxing their stomach muscles: ideal moment to push them into sitting position. It was precisely because I had a very determined and difficult toddler that I had to ensure she was restrained before I entered any shop. The way I used to do it was to stop by a certain landmark (charity shop by the corner) and get her into the buggy there. My firm handling did not make dd compliant- it just made shopping trips a lot cheaper as I didn't have to pay for the wreckage.

Surely an adult can manage to be more determined than a toddler?

I have a DD with SN, who would not sit in her car seat. Stair-rods all the way.

1)You loosen the straps fully.
2) You try and get arms in. Expect that they will spend their time getting them back out, but patiently keep putting them in.
3)You wait patiently while they strain their body.

4)You observe their breathing, or lack of. As they realise that they aren't breathing, they reflexively relax their muscle tone to allow a breath.

5_At that moment, you apply quick but gentle pressure on the tummy, and apply the clip.
6) They do the same thing over again, so you concentrate this time on getting arms in straps.
7)When you see them take a breath for the second time, you quickly yank the strap, to tighten the straps.

Sounds like a palaver, but it takes only a few minutes. No arguing, no negotiation, just action.

Now dd is older threats/treats work well fer her behaviour but when she was younger if I said she was going in the pushchair/trolley that's where she went - kicking and screaming if necessary. If you are consistent in following through on consequences and they know their howling has no effect it is over pretty quickly ime.
I do sympathise with the pp who is petite and has a toddler physically stronger than her though. It must be very difficult to maintain boundaries in that situation. Ime at that age they still sometimes need to be physically moved.

Haha no robot here.

But over her short life she has learned that it's useless to fight me on it. So once I get stern she realises she isn't going to win a battle of wills with me.

Obviously it doesn't stop her putting up a fight in the first place, but as I am the adult and parent I'm the boss.

I think I have inherited my mums "look". The one she could just give us without a word and we would snap into good behaviour! We knew there would be consequences if we didn't behave... We didn't know what those consequences were though! :o

Kit key, mine weren't good at high chairs and trolleys either.
I'm not with some other posters that they are 'vital' though.

I insist on car seat harnesses, I can see that's vital. Perhaps because as others said, that has always been insisted upon, I don't have an issue with that. I have used the Traffic Club Books, Sammy Seatbelt to illustrate / reiterate the safety message, but beyond that have never had to physically force them, they just know it's expected.

For trolleys I managed it by not doing big grocery shops with them. My husband did it solo for a while on the weekends without myself or the kids, and now we on line shop for example.

For the buggy I let them out to walk.
Sometimes there are time constraints, but I do usually negotiate them. IE you need to sit in there until we get to X, so we're there on time, but then you can play. Or I distract with food, singing or turn the buggy to forward face, that sort of thing.

For the high chair I let them get down, table manners and asking to get down etc are for when they are older I reckon, if as a baby they've had enough, well then they've had enough!

Don't really get all this need to come out on top in a battle of wills, not giving in etc.
Some of the posts here are assuming 'giving in' to them will be a nightmare when they get to school or whatever. I haven't found that to be the case, my son's report commented on how he was sensitive to needs of others, and good at listening etc, so I'm not losing sleep over that side of things.

That's just about teaching / showing them how to respect people in my mind, which is completely different to making them do whatever you say.
So the example given earlier about the plane which was delayed because the child wouldn't put on their seat belt. For me that is not respectful to the other passengers, I wouldn't be using negotiation in that sort of situation. I have been in that situation, you do just need to get on with it in that sort of scenario.

Anyway I guess the main thing is Kitkey that it's perfectly normal to have kids like yours who don't stay still / want to get out, so don't worry you are not alone. :)
If in your case some of those things are 'vital' {for example no other way to do a shop except on your own with the kid/s in tow}, then as some others have illustrated consistency, force etc will ultimately make a difference I guess.

DD used to arch her back and scream in protest about going in a pushchair.

This is what I do:

Brakes on (or pushchair will go with dd trailing on the ground after attempting the following )

My Knee firmly between her legs.

One strap on then the other, release knee then quickly fasten clip.

All done with no speech just a fierce firm look on my face.

I'll be honest I just avoid those situation likely to cause a kick off, it's a fairly new thing that toddlers go to restaurants and sit in highchairs in public, I went out for a meal aged 5 for the first time because that was the age I could be expected to sit and behave myself.
Everything else car seats, buggies etc you have to be careful not to hurt them but at the end of the day they are going to be strapped in.

gingergaskel - what would you do if you were an sp and had to shop with your toddler and they were running riot in the supermarket? Or if they did kick up a fuss about getting strapped in their car seat? And distraction didn't work.
I maintain that if you give a child what they want for tantrumming - they will learn that tantrumming brings positive outcomes and do it all the more.

And I wouldn't be bothered about toddlers getting down from their table in a restaurant because it's bad manners. It's just that toddlers running around while waiters carry plates of hot food isn't a good mix imo.

Dd never minded trolleys in fact at age 6 she keeps asking to go in them no chance as im 6 months pg DNephew on the other hand my god did he hate anything restricting him! he's always been a 'wilful' child so the snap and bend made me laugh out loud there! quick arm to the tum and hold :)

Environmental Health wouldn't be able to find Curly Catterpillar, Curly Caterpillar finds you!

A quick tickle of the ribs always went a long way when they did the "ironing board" in the buggy or highchair.

exotic -

yes I was determined and made sure the car straps were secure and the plane belts fastened but it took brute physical force - I don't agree that it always just takes firmness, a look etc. Maybe that was enough for some parents but saying that makes it look like obviously other parents aren't as up to the job or just not being firm enough - and maybe that is the case or that some toddlers are just more difficult to handle than others. it doesn't mean though that if one toddler cooperates more than an other that one parent is doing a better job than the other.

I can't believe I'm going to admit this in public Headfirst but I've just got back from Morrisons and as I grabbed a packet of cereal, I did actually think about Curly the Caterpillar

It took brute physical force. I used brute physical force

Yes, dd eventually worked out that I was in charge. But it took a few years. And a few years' worth of broken crockery and spoilt groceries would have come expensive.

I agree that some are more difficult than others, but safety is non negotiable.

"Of course there is a technique. You have to feel you are in charge and the child picks up on that and becomes compliant. Also, you never give in. if they won't sit down, than you make them, it really is as easy as that."

hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha etc

Nononono, hazey, the technique is all about watching stomach muscles, not faffing around waiting for your toddler to become complaint. I do think exotic has a point: when it comes to safety or respecting other people's property, then you have to do whatever it takes to keep your toddler out of trouble: if a firm look will do it then that's fine, if it needs physical restraint then that's what you have to do. If you get hurt in the process (yes, dd, I still remember!) then it's still your responsibility and you have to do whatever it takes.

If I had given up trying to restrain dd just because there were no signs of her becoming compliant, she would almost certainly not be alive by now. And her little brother would definitely not be alive! And we would have been banned from the local shops. It was my job, so I did it.

im soo glad im not alone. with ds sometimes i leave him in the car wth dh, if we all go together i insist he holds my hand, when he runs off we eithr distract him by letting him help pick out the shooping. . .he enjoys it soo much and he likes to carry eg bananas or one of his snacks like the cheeses or yoghurt, so rest of the time he happily walks along wth us. if dh insists on sitting him in the trolley it works for 10min then he cries to come out and i admit im too soft it breaks my heart to see him crying over somethng i thnk isnt necessary. i usually tell him u can come dwn and hold my hand or u go bck in the trolley and he coorperates.

Depends partly on equipment, too. Some harness setups are better than others.
DC4 is a swine, in addition to 5-point harness that came with buggy, used 2 sets of reins tied up in imaginative ways -- he still manages to wiggle out of them all if determined; I end up having to carry him under my arm (rugby hold style, he is a hefty 3yo now, too!) whilst dragging the buggy, until he agrees to sit in buggy or walk or whatever I need.

Similar problem with bike seat (although sussed that in the end), not least by switching to a bike seat with a more secure harness system for a while.

This thread reminds me that we are having "issues" with DC4's shoulder straps in car seat.... I can't easily see him when driving so don't end up remembering to sort it.

Buy some reins where the body part comes away from the strap you hold. Put it on your dc & clip it to the trolley.

Never had to do this with dd2, but did need it to stop her escaping the buggy!

Dd1 never objected, would do what I wanted her to, dd2 is not as pliable as her older sister!

gingergaskel - what would you do if you were an sp and had to shop with your toddler and they were running riot in the supermarket? Or if they did kick up a fuss about getting strapped in their car seat? And distraction didn't work.
I maintain that if you give a child what they want for tantrumming - they will learn that tantrumming brings positive outcomes and do it all the more.

Hi Hairy,

Personally as a SP {my husband is away a lot, so I do often have to do practical things solo} for the shopping scenario, I still wouldn't view it as 'vital'.
I would either do internet shopping, which is how I handle it now, or in the past where that wasn't an option I did smaller shops more often for example.

I did mention in my post:
If in your case some of those things are 'vital' {for example no other way to do a shop except on your own with the kid/s in tow}, then as some others have illustrated consistency, force etc will ultimately make a difference I guess.
So I do see that others may have different needs as 'vital', given our circumstances are all different.
With regards to the car seat for example, I mentioned that that does qualify as vital to me personally, and yes I would use force if necessary, but would try other things first where possible first.

It's the 'my way or the highway' thing going on that I just don't really get. In that it seems not to be about needing to have the child restrained at all, rather about needing the child to do what you say.

I don't 'give in' to tantrums, again I don't get that line of thought. I don't change my behaviours {IE give or not give them something etc} one way or another when they do have one, so it's not about letting them doing whatever they please.
They tantrum because they are bored, tired, cranky etc. So if I can manage things so that it doesn't get to that point I will.
Of course mine do tantrum though, that's what kids do at that age, I concentrate more on how to avoid and manage them when it happens though, rather than making them do thing my way or else, if you see what I mean.

gingergaskell
Don't really get all this need to come out on top in a battle of wills, not giving in etc.

Surely it an assessment - if there another option quiet supermarket or carrying them till they've calmed down then you can try that if not than distraction or bribery ect but there may well come a point where there is no other option.

You do not want to be constant having unnecessary battles or constantly giving in but there comes a point where what the parents says goes.

At that point - you may have to use slight force and very possibility have to rapidly put them back - again and again and again - possibly if in a public place

If one thinks about it, different people will have to have different views on what is vital:

if an extra fiver for internet shopping makes a difference, then going to the shops becomes more vital (when dcs were little, a fiver was a day's food budget for the entire family- not something I could pay to have the weekly shop delivered)

if you have other children who need to go to school/playschool/medical appointments, then their needs may have to take priority

if you don't have a car, then one weekly shop becomes quite difficult

if you don't have a car, you may not have a choice of shops: round here, there is one fairly large COOP and that is the sum total of my choice

if you need to travel, e.g. for family reasons, then you may not have much of a choice (I was not about to tell my elderly FIL that you can't see my dcs until they have both outgrown the toddler stage and if you are dead by then, that's just tough)

But of course any of those situations are going to be specific to that particular family.

I don't think I was confrontational for the sake of it- but there was a fair bit of inevitable confrontation, and I can't say I feel guilty for having made dd's feelings make way for other people's needs from time to time.