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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For being furious at DH telling DSD that my degree isn't a real degree?

488 replies

TooFarGone · 12/07/2011 12:20

So DH is sat down with his DD taking about careers etc. He says to her "these days, you need a job that pays at least £20k a year but at the same time, you don't want to be stressing yourself out with difficult degrees and stuff. You want to enjoy your time at uni. That's why I think nursing would be ideal for you! you get to go to uni, you don't have to do a difficult degree and you get a well paid job at the end of it!".

So DSD says "But isn't a degree in nursing going to be just as difficult?" and he replied "no course not, they call it a degree but its not like a real degree".

I'm furious as I worked bloody hard to get my degree and he knows this. It isn't an "easy option" at all. I had it out with him and he apologised for upsetting me but still maintains that nursing is an easy alternative to doing a "real" degree.

OP posts:
Wamster · 14/07/2011 18:13

Thank you, wonkaat least you recognise that it is not the patients' place to supply water even though oversights can be made. I do appreciate that even if not in a truly academic sense nursing is hard work owing to unsociable hours and it's not an easy job.
I guess I've just been antagonised by some here and I shall leave now.

catgirl1976 · 14/07/2011 18:50

Don't forget to fill your jug up before you hit the hay

MummyTigger · 14/07/2011 18:53

Of course, Wamster. We are the antagonistic ones.

At the end of the say - did you complain about it? If yes - then shut up and move on. It was a one-off incident and it probably won't be repeated. If no - then why are you complaining about it now to people who think you are wrong?

You would have had sympathy had you not been so derogatory towards nurses and the nursing profession as a whole. Just because I didn't agree with Hitlers methods doesn't mean I go around spouting anti-German slogans and wanting to hold them all accountable for their actions. So why should ALL nurses suffer because of ONE incident that left you feeling a bit put out?

We've all made numerous valid points, and you've refused to acknowledge them. Regardless of what you may think, Nurses are not "out to get you". And they need a degree to do what they do because everyone kicks off if the nurses don't know infinite details about an infinite number of patients and procedures. I suggest you try it: I think you'd be surprised at how much nurses are relied upon.

PeopleCallMeTricky · 14/07/2011 18:56

Seriously though, do complain if you feel it's justified. Unfortunately it is the only way things change.

Wamster · 14/07/2011 19:18

MummyTigger I most definitely will be complaining about it now.
This is an internet forum in AIBU and I can complain about it here in anonymity for the sake of argument as we all can and that is great, but the appalling attitude displayed by some of the nurses here- i.e. get your own drink, why should we nurses do it for you? has incensed me so much, I am in process of writing letter and seeing what else I can do regarding my treatment on the ward. Why should others suffer because some nurses are too pig ignorant and arrogant to realise that it is they that should take care of a patient's basic needs?
Yes, I appreciate that nurses are busy and oversights are made, and I believe they have a difficult job but if a patient has not got access to drinking water then the responsibility lies with the nursing team. They could at least apologise and accept responsibility.

I shall also be contacting the NMC about the issue and seeing how I can progress further because I wish to know THEIR view on whether or not I am the one to blame for the ward not providing water for me drink or whether it is the nursing staff.
I don't need to actually, because I know damned well that they firmly believe that nurses are accountable for their actions and inaction/s regarding patient care, but I still want their view on paper.

Wamster · 14/07/2011 19:20

MummyTigger You are obviously not a nurse, seriously, you know sweet F.A. about it.

catgirl1976 · 14/07/2011 19:20

How the hell could they have apologised and accepted responsibility if they DIDN'T KNOW you wanted water?

Wamster · 14/07/2011 19:26

Because part of the nurses role is to ensure that patients' have access to water. A very basic part of the job, I admit, but an essential part all the same. They should check that such things are in supply for the patient or at least get a nursing assistant to do it. I've never suggested here that they should actually do it themselves.
Don't they look at their patients and their surroundings. It should be obvious to them.

I mean if they are NOT looking at their patients' and involved in their care what the fuck are nurses for?

catgirl1976 · 14/07/2011 19:28

But they didn't know you had drunk all your water so they couldn't apologise and take responsbility. If you had complained then they would have had the opportunity to do so.

Wamster · 14/07/2011 19:34

I have difficulty speaking when very worried, I'm embarrassed because I have a stutter when I am upset or anxious, but that is besides the point. They should make frequent rounds (or get nursing assistant to do so, OK, the nurses themselves may have other things to do) to make sure that water is replenished.

The bottom line is this: had frequent checks on the patients and their basic requirements such as clean clothing, hygiene needs and water been met, this would not have arisen in first place.

Really, it is no surprise to me that doctors prescribe water nowadays; with attitudes like some people here, it is to be expected.

MummyTigger · 14/07/2011 19:38

Good for you to complain. It's what you should have done as and when it happened, because it's had you stew in your own hatred for however long it's been. At least now you can stop tarring everyone with the same brush, and leave the bigotry outside. And I may not be a nurse, but my mother is. I've had to be the one to comfort her when she comes home with yet another bruise from an alcoholic twat. I've had to remind her that she's doing it to help people when someone passes away during her shift through no fault of her own - it was just her time.

Look, I'm sorry you feel mistreated. It's horrible, it really is. But your whole attitude about it has had several posters on here (myself included) reeling. You've let it get to the point where you are beating down every single nurse because of a very small minority. You've been very rude and insulting, and what's worse is I don't think you can even see it. You're blinded by this one small injustice that was done to you, so much so that no-one can have a rational and calm debate with you.

We've explained to you that they cannot be expected to do their jobs AND make sure all of the Nursing Assistants are doing their job too. Otherwise the position of Nursing Assistant would just be obsolete, and you'd have nurses rushing around. We've already pointed out to you that you were perfectly capable of asking. You didn't. You didn't even press the call button and then point, which requires absolutely no effort on your part to converse with the nurses. This, to me, says that you're just a liable as the nurses.

If you needed the toilet, but the bedpan was out of reach, would you just sit there and wait to wet yourself? No. You'd press the call button and request that they pass you the bedpan, or assist you in going to the toilet. We really are sorry, but nurses aren't psychic.

And as for your comments regarding "You don't get it therefore you ust be a man"... the only reason anyone would think you were a bloke on here is because you are being heavily bigoted, a little bit sexist and very much insulting to an otherwise noble profession. And that - to me - says that you are more likely to be a male.

The original issue still stands - people don't see nursing as particularly difficult, when in fact it's one of the most difficult professions going. I'd rather be a doctor than a nurse - at least as a doctor you have your opinions listened to, you aren't ordered about and when something goes wrong you can fob off the blame to any of a hundred different people. And you don't need to deal with most of the aftercare and the general treatment outside of your speciality. If we want to discuss degrees that "aren't real", why not start bringing up subjects that people think aren't as difficult? For example, I have a friend doing a Fine Arts Degree in London and she is happily pissing through it like a poker through butter because she finds it so easy.

P.S Doctors prescribe hydration when a patient is unable to drink for themselves, or when levels of hydration need to be above or below the normal limit. They do this for patients who may have renal failure etc. If someone needs a specific level of hydration, they have to by law prescribe it. It's not used for absolutely everyone, and it certainly wouldn't have been in your case.

PeopleCallMeTricky · 14/07/2011 19:42

Great post MT

Wamster · 14/07/2011 20:08

You are so very, very wrong about the NMC holding the patient accountable about them (the patient) not receiving water. Believe me, the NMC will hold the nurses to account if such things are not provided.

As for nursing assistants, the clue is in the name: they are there to help the nurses fulfill their role.

As for doctors prescribing water, the articles to which I refer do not involve patients who are unable to physically drink, they could drink if the nurses bothered to give them water.
There would be no scandal otherwise. The scandal is down to poor nursing care.

Wamster · 14/07/2011 20:09

I don't expect nurses themselves to physically give water, but by god, I fully expect them to tell a nursing assistant to do so.

MummyTigger · 14/07/2011 20:12

I never said the NMC wouldn't side with you. They will - but to absolutely no avail on your behalf. You'll receive a bog-standard reply of "We're terribly sorry, we'll take the steps to make sure it doesn't happen again", and that will be the last you hear of it.

If a doctor "prescribes" something, it's because that person has an otherwise unusual need of it. They don't just do it for the heck of it, otherwise you'd have every doctor in the country having to prescribe oxygen.

Nursing Assistants are there to assist the nurses in their duties, yes. But that doesn't mean that they sit in a corner meekly looking at the floor until a nurse specifically orders them to do something. They also are not able to check to make sure that the NA's are doing their job properly - they do not have the time.

I've already addressed these points. You are just not listening. I've tried to sympathise with you (and believe me when I say it's taken a lot of effort), I've tried to remain calm and to explain the flaws in your reasoning. I've tried to not let it affect my emotions as a person, but I'm finding it extremely hard to have a reasonable discussion with you, as is every other person on this board.

MummyTigger · 14/07/2011 20:15

As I've said, I'm sorry you feel you were mistreated, but to have it consume you to such an extent that you become vicious about it to people who don't share your opinion is ridiculous. To use that age-old phrase - shit happens. And I certainly don't continue to bring up incidences of injustice towards me months or possibly even years after it has happened.

Wamster · 14/07/2011 20:27

MummyTigger The doctors prescribed drinking water because the nurses failed to provide adequate fluids for the patients. The Care Quality Commission found that 3 out of 12 hospitals failed to provide adequate water for their patients in their care.
Once again and with feeling: this was reported in May of this year and widely regarded as scandalous. Got that?

The doctors felt that because the patients were not receiving water through oh, I don't know the actual nurses GIVING them something to drink (way out idea that, isn't it? Hmm) they had to step in and actually prescribe water.

Now I am sorry, but regardless of MY gripes, this is a fact.
I know you are not a nurse, because every decent nurse with a heart out there would regard this as fucking appalling. Just ask your relative.
She may very well think I am a tit for everything else, but not this.

MummyTigger · 14/07/2011 20:39

Since you asked, my mother has been reading over my shoulder with great relish. And she agrees with my views, the views of CatGirl and the view of almost every other (sane) poster on here. Funnily enough, the only person she seems to disagree with is you.

Which "article" was this? Because I've looked through the whole of this forum, and not found a single link that you've posted to back this up. I'd also be loath to believe anything in the newspapers, as regardless of the actual facts nurses are always accountable for everything, even when they aren't really involved. And this article right here backs me up, as does other blogs that this nurse has posted. I've linked her blog three times now, and I have a funny feeling you have yet to read them.

It's not a nurses duty to give you water. It's the nursing assistants. And when the nursing assistants fail, the nurses take the flak even though the incompetence of the nursing assistants is rife.

If you make a mistake in your job, you get the blame - not your manager. And your manager does not spend the whole of his time running about the office going "Are you sure you know what you're doing? 100%? You're definitely sure you don't need any help? How about if we sit down and discuss your role in greater detail? No? You're fine? Are you sure? Are you comfortable with carrying out the most basic tasks? Positive? Good, well done!"

I've addressed these issues with you. Other people have addressed these issues with you. And yet you are ignoring every post that makes a valid point, picking and choosing sentences out of context and hamming them up to make yourself sound like the victim. Please, just stop.

agedknees · 14/07/2011 20:45

Wamster claimed to have trained to be a nurse (she said she trained 5 years ago) in a thread I was on earlier this year.

So Wamster, do you not think that there should be a legalised ratio in the UK of trained staff to patients on a ward? Do you not think that instead of carping about nurse education you should be proactive and be demanding these levels of safe staffing?

MummyTigger · 14/07/2011 20:54

WOAH WOAH WOAH...

This person, sitting there spouting bigoted, farcical, unprofessional and horrendous bile that would be more suited to a Daily Mail article is, in fact, fully-qualified in a field that she proclaims "doesn't require a degree", isn't as "academically difficult" and, to all intents and purposes, is murdering patients because they simply do not care?!

Good grief, if you really are a nurse then rest assured you are the lowest form of life. You should know how difficult it is, and you aren't just degrading the profession, you're insulting yourself along with it.

catgirl1976 · 14/07/2011 20:57

I missed the bit where we found out Wamster is female. I am sorry Wamster, I did make the assupmtion you were male. I don't know why - it was just your tone etc. I think I have refered to you as he / him a few times. Sorry.

Just got my head round that and then find out

Wamster trained as a nurse??!?!?

Confused
agedknees · 14/07/2011 20:58

Unless there are two Wamsters. I think the thread might have been in Feb/March (age affects my memory). Yes, I def think it was Feb, because I was spouting my usual legal staff/patient ratio thing.

MummyTigger · 14/07/2011 21:03

There definitely should be a regulation in place whereby you need X amount of fully-qualified nurses per X patients. As I've posted before, there are links to evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that the higher the number of degree-holding nurses per ward, the lower the complications/deaths.

The real issue is the general public put nurses onto a pedestal, load them up with responsibilities and then when they fall they are made a spectacle of. It's just stupid. I hope to go into nursing and follow in my mothers footsteps, but I'm under no delusions that it's a difficult and long slog for a job in which you will probably never be appreciated.

Wamster · 14/07/2011 21:04

Oh right so any qualifications I may or may not possess do not give me the right to criticise how poorly my time on a ward was?
I left, incidentally, because I could not bear the way things were going. I decided to train as a teacher and while I do not make a fortune, I earn more as I did as a nurse and enjoy it far more.
I am glad to be out of it and now I know why.

Why the hell should this disallow me from making criticisms of the poor care I received is beyond me!

Wamster · 14/07/2011 21:07

Just look up the Care Quality Commission report and their findings into how doctors have to prescribe water because nurses failed to supply them with enough fluid. That's not the newspapers and they have no reason to lie.