In thinking that Jo Frost should shut the fuck up about breastfeeding

[spudulika]

... as she clearly knows nothing about it.

If you want proof have a look at the new Jo Frost magazine (no need to buy it of course, just do what I do - rifle through it at the supermarket ). Article on breastfeeding 'how long, and when to stop'.

She seems to think that 'weaning' means stopping breastfeeding.

And she feels the need to say 'I'm the biggest fan of breastfeeding, but I don't think mothers should be made to feel like the scum of the earth for not doing it. Whatever choice you make is fine!' To which I want to respond: if I wanted to read vapid platitudes about breastfeeding I'd go to Netmums. It's free. Whereas your magazine costs... bloody loads.

It's just not asseptable.

She needs to pull her socks up.

"but a regular routine in the hospital for the breastfeeding nurse to come round and question new mothers. It was part of the hospital's breast-feeding promotion programme"

What - there was a document somewhere at the hospital saying something like: "Ask mothers about feeding intentions. If breastfeeding offer praise. If formula feeding roll eyes and look disgusted?"

Asking about feeding intentions is normal surely? Otherwise how do they know how to help the mother.

I am aware that some hospitals have protocols requiring midwives to explain to mums who're ff that they are making a decision which may be difficult to change their mind about later. Also to try to ascertain whether the mother is aware of the possible implications for her baby of her choice. The problem is that the mothers who're most likely to ff are also those least likely to access antenatal classes, and many won't have had a proper opportunity to discuss feeding choices with their midwife antenatally. So there will be a stream of mothers who are making the irrevocable choice not to breastfeed without having had a chance to really explore their feelings or understanding of the issues involved. If I was a midwife I'd find this a worry.

Though of course on the postnatal ward is way too late to be having this discussion. I suppose the argument is that some mothers will just go ahead and breastfeed, who may not have really thought it through much before hand. And those who really don't want to won't. The same school of thought is behind the practice of not asking mothers their feeding intentions on the labour ward and simply putting their baby skin to skin next to their breast immediately after birth. Many hospitals now have a policy of doing this, and midwives do report higher rates of breastfeeding on discharge from hospital when this is done. It's like for some women who have a cultural 'block' about breastfeeding, instinct will take over if it's given a chance.

The thread has veered off from Jo Frost a bit, but IMO the question should be "AIBU in thinking that a person with no experience, training or qualifications in an area should not be giving advice about it in a widely available magazine?".

If you take breastfeeding out of the question then I think a lot more people would be agreeing with you.

FWIW choccie I've had the injection 3 times. Never vomited. Intend having it again this time (Friday).

I hope you have a calm birth and that you manage bf. There are other places to get advice where you won't get sat in judgement on. But I agree with everything you've written - very much an own goal!

What - there was a document somewhere at the hospital saying something like: "Ask mothers about feeding intentions. If breastfeeding offer praise. If formula feeding roll eyes and look disgusted?"

Spud - that's a ridiculous statement. Of course that won't be the hospital's policy. But how it is carried through by the MWs does indicate a cultural tone which is possibly set by the department. Regardless, it's offensive to have one's choice denigrated to such a degree.

Haven't read thread. However my first thought was YANBU. Jo Frost shut STFU full stop. Anyone who refers to themself in the third person; 'Come to JoJo', has to go.

*themselves. pfft.

It's the Jo Frost magazine. She will be voicing her opinions and ideas as she does in her programmes. If you don't like Jo Frost, don't buy the Jo Frost magazine. Her opinion sound s ok to me.

"What - there was a document somewhere at the hospital saying something like: "Ask mothers about feeding intentions. If breastfeeding offer praise. If formula feeding roll eyes and look disgusted?""

No of course not. But since it was a daily routine carried out on the wards you might have expected someone to pick up on it if it was contrary to hospital policy. Somebody could have had a tactful word. As I said, I am sure it was well meant. But some of my friends did feel very uncomfortable with it. Not sure I know what the answer would be; clearly, you do want to promote breastfeeding, but at the same time you don't want to put people's backs up or make them feel vulnerable.

I wish the advice was changed to .........

"Breast milk should be your babies main source of nutrition for the first year. At between 4 and 6 months you may want to allow them to start tasting solid foods. Between 10 and 12 months, solids should become their main source of food."

That was the advice when I was in Canada 6 years ago. I'm aghast at the BFing information in the UK.

"Very little on risks on all the 'natural options'"

What - the risks of not having pain relief? Are we talking clinical drawbacks?

I've not heard of there being any clinical risks to not using pethidine or epidurals, except in some cases where a mum may be at very high risk of emcs and so may benefit from having an epidural sited early on in labour.

Of course there is the risk that the mother is going to feel more pain without pain relief, but if I was an antenatal teacher I'd feel a bit of a dufus having to explain that.

"Not ONE positive statement about pain relief".

Other, of course, that it is PAIN RELIEF.

Were you expecting her to give you a big list of clinical benefits for you and your baby to taking pethidine or having an epidural

You'd have to do quite a bit of digging to find any.

"the heavy information on how 'most' women feel desperately ill having the injection at third stage of delivery was fairly annoying."

Did she actually use the word 'most'?

Challenge her. Go on, I dare you. Ask her for the research to back up her view that the majority of women react badly to syntometrine.

" I had to specifically ASK if women who felt ill were provided with anti-nausea meds, and only then did she acknowledge that this was the case"

They are. They don't always work. Especially with pethidine. Most women who have a reaction to third stage drugs have a fairly transitory reaction to the ergometrine element in syntometrine. So we're not talking hours. Having experienced half an hour of severe trembling and nausea following the birth of my youngest, I can vouch that it can spoil things somewhat, and had I not been (like you) at especially risk of bleeding, I definitely would have avoided it.

It's the ergometrine element that causes the problems by the way. Not all hospitals use this.

Anyway, show your DH this: here

Then show it to your antenatal teacher!

"I am far more negatively affected by this kind of judgemental crap than I am by an 'anti BF society'"

Actually if you lived in a society where bf was the norm and you'd grown up surrounded by the sight of babies of all ages feeding at the breast, you probably wouldn't have spent 5 minutes agonising about any of these issues. The fact that it all worries you so much - the appearance of your breasts, how you're going to cope with breastfeeding in public, your worries and expectations about things going wrong, what other people will think about your decisions about how you feed your baby - you probably wouldn't be having any of these thoughts........

I bought Jo Frost's book on babies when DD was born. It was beyond useless.
I also think her TV show has some bloody awful advice. A couple of weeks ago there was a kid on it who was pulling her eyelashes out. Jo's response was to ignore it as the kid was "manipulating" the parents. I find her approach that kids are purely manipulative little bastards who mustn't win, and that parents operate solely on their own without support networks, fucking sad.
So I would give the mag a wide berth meself.

Thanks normantebbit for the links - will have a good poke around when I get a chance.

choccie chip if you want to bf you may need support. Please seek it. The only "own goal" would be your own.

People spout crap in all walks of life. Saddly cause they shout loudest they drown out all the normal folk just doing what they do, in a nonjudgemental fashion.

OP YANBU. Jo Frost is though.she is not a parent or had any childcare training. Most people on here know more about bringing up children then she does.

"That was the advice when I was in Canada 6 years ago"

Really? That's very interesting!

"don't buy the Jo Frost magazine"

I didn't. Just had a good old leaf through it in the shop

Don't think the answer to 'someone who presents themselves as an expert is giving inaccurate and misleading advice on baby feeding' is 'if you don't like it don't buy the magazine!

I only know it's misleading and inaccurate because I'm an experienced mother with some training in this area.

I wouldn't have known it to be wrong a few years ago, and it may well have impacted on the decisions that I made about feeding my baby.

yabu

Re jo frost she knows nowt. Shame she had to add fule to the bf vs ff thing by using the word scum. Imo the vitriol between the two "camps" is talked up...i rarely see it in action.

Spud yyy re platitudes being an early pass out for crap hpcs. Few women chose to ff as infant feeding surveys show us.

I think the quote in the OP is crap because it is buying into the bf v ff bollocks and encouraging mothers to look at each other through narrowed eyes 'is she looking at me because I ff' 'does she think I am disgusting for bf in public'

Its crap crap crap.

Ask most women and they will tell you they really couldnt give a toss how we feed out kids.

The minority feel very strongly either way.

Shame on Jo Frost for encouraging the myth.

Stupid woman and all her huggy, crying, journey, asseptable, pacificallly, nonsense.

Breast feeding is not the be all and end all of parenting. It is one aspect of a whole range of social emotional behavioural and environmental factors that may affect a babys development . There are cases where breast feeding may not be the best idea when taking into account the emotional and physical wellbeing of mother. At the end of the day an important thing to remember is that a happy baby has a happy mum. My mum couldn't bf as she had breast cancer while pg. The fact that she didn't seems completely irrelevant to my life now given the fact that she is truly a wonderful mother. I don't know what all the fuss is about, there seems a lack of perspective on this issue. Both of my babies nearly died , one of them would quite happily have slipped off the planet without feeding. Feeding was so painful for her that she never want to do it. The fact that we managed to keep her going through those first 18 months I am very proud of. Whether she was bf or ff would not be an issue. It's wrong to be judgmental of mothers when you haven't lived in their shoes .

hcps...sorry.

What did she say that was inaccurate and misleading? I think I missed that.

I think she gives sensible advice on the whole re parenting and behaviour.

nobody made me feel scumfor not being able to breastfeed my son.

but i did feel like scum, and i still do.

my feelings count.

Wrt her background it is my understanding she has no formal qualifications and landed a job babysittting for a producer who had the super nanny idea, add that to her desire to act and there you have it.

I don't think it's any sort of scandal that she doesn't have qualifications for what she does.

She has straightforward ideas about routines, rules and correct behaviour and she can help people implement them so they have a happier time with their children. I don't think lack of qualifications matters here one jot.

"Breast feeding is not the be all and end all of parenting"

You are quite right. And you'll find that EVERYONE agrees with you, including those people who think that breastfeeding is important and needs to be promoted.

"landed a job babysittting for a producer who had the super nanny idea"

If she is so useless, why do her ideas/help always work?