to not want a teenage boy telling me abortion is a sin and should never be legalised?!

[ThisMomentusDay]

I never really know how to feel about abortion, i don't think i could ever have one but thankfully i've never been in a position to have to consider this so it's a very easy thing to say isn't it?
As such i'm very much sitting on the 'pro-choice' fence!
It's such a personal choice for a woman and not usually one taken lightly.

Yesterday on the street there was a stall set up with a petition to the Taoiseach (PM) to not have any sort of a referendum on legalising abortion in Ireland. Fair enough i thought, freedom of speech, right to protest etc.
Untill i was passing and a teenage boy below the voting age (and possibly the age of consent) tries to hand me the leaflets. I looked across the street and on the 4 corners of this junction there are teenage boys handing anti-abortion leaflets out to (mainly) women!

It really annoyed me, (especially as it was very obviously a catholic group and i think the church has done enough damage to the state and should stay the hell out of politics) but i just refused the leaflets and kept walking.

AIBU to have thought 'what the hell has it got to do with you?'

Hands up who wants a referendum on this at the moment ? There is seriously enough messes to sort out without dragging the country through the distraction of a referendum on abortion.

Well said, Maryz. This thread has predictably and perhaps inevitably become yet another abortion debate, but the point of the OP seemed to be that some people are more entitled to an opinion on the subject than others, by virtue of their age and gender.

That is bollocks and your post eloquently demonstrates just one of the many reasons why a young person might feel invested in the debate and has every right to take part in it.

Another reason might be that young people of both genders can, even with no particular experience that relates directly to the abortion issue, have strong feelings on the same kind of emotive issues that generate enough strong feeling for 7 (or 30) pages on Mumsnet.

Why wouldn't they?

They aren't shouting in the street to demonstrate their personal moral objection, they are harangueing women, calling them "sinners", condemning women as "murderers" and campaigning to keep abortion to illegal.

Frankly I couldn't care less what anyones personal moral stance is, however when they choose to make that stance loudly on public streets, they make it my business. They seek to influence what I do with my body. Why on earth should that have anything to do with them? I don't care what your kids think about abortion, if they choose to shout in my face that I'm a sinner and a killer, I'm pretty sure I can tell them they are wrong then.

And I don't want to hear about free speech, anyone who thinks there is such a thing is honestly deluded.

and no, I don't want a referendum, I don't think we need one. Its the 21st century, any country that still has no legal abortion cannot call itself civilised or modern, the governent should just have the balls to sort it out themselves.

I haven't re-read the thread but I certainly never said they were not entitled ot thier opinion. Just that I was entitled to disagree.

I do feel they are unlikely to have a full understanding of the issues and I am entitled to think that. And I put that down a little to age as I think at a younger age we see things more black and white and as we get older we gain the life experience to understand life doesn't work like that. I

put that down a little to them being male, as I do not think a man can ever fully understand the impact of an abortion upon a woman nor the impact of being forced to continue a pregnancy.

I put that down a lot to them belonging (apparantly) to a religious group that is unlikely to have encouraged open debate or encourage them to challenge thier views.

I also feel that demonstrating against the right of other people to have a democratic vote is pretty . But I have never said they don't have a right to thier opinion or to voice it.

wouldn't you say that standing in the street shoving pictures of dead foetuses in the faces of passers-by demonstrates a lack of understanding about the other side of the abortion debate? Or in fact a lack of tact, maturity, sheer human decency?

Whoops I am guilty of bringing this thread off track too so let me say , OP, YABU. One of the few things Ireland has going for it is that it is a free democracy with a well educated , politically aware population. At 14 I had strong opinions and enjoyed articulating them . I hope I give my teens the opportunity to do the same, whether it's going on a gay rights march or going to mass on a sunday.Perhaps the teens you encountered may temper their views with age and life experience, perhaps they won't. But they do have a right to them and a right to express them.

I have always thought the right to protest covered the right to peaceful protest and as I said earlier on in my posts, I do think there is something distinctly unpeaceful about shoving pictures of dead feutuses at people.

It seems designed to cause hurt and distress and not to educate.

I read a heartbreaking post from someone on another thread who had had to have an emergency termination to safe her life at a late stage in her pg. When she found out the procedure would be listed as a termination she tried to refuse only to be told if she refused she would be sectioned and the procedure carried out anyway. That woman is still grieving for that child and I cannot imagine the hurt having one of these leaflets shoved in her face would cause. I cannot see for a second what it would gain. She knows exactly what the procedure involved - she doesn't need "educating". If you need to fall back on tactics like this to get your point across something is wrong.

Ok off track again but I have to ask In response to a previous post- Is abortion a feature of a civilised society?

Well that is going to polarise again.... Personally I believe it is yes.

Yes elliephant it is.

Because to force women and girls to continue with pregnancy, when they do not want to, and no matter what the circumstances, is uncivilised.

Without legal abortion you also end up with back street abortion and all the awfulness associated with it. Also uncivilised to put women in a position where they need to risk their lives and break the law in order to gain access to control over their own bodies.

The sanctity of life... Suicide used to be illegal, it was a sin. I don't see many people who still argue that. Things move on, people weigh up consequences, and decide which course of action causes the least harm. Access to abortion causes less harm than not having access. Therefore it is the civilised option.

Youth defence are not civilised. Neither was I the day one of their members shoved a picture of a dead foetus under my nose and ranted at me a few days after I left hospital after having a rather traumatic m/c.

They are entitled to their opinions, it makes you wonder why they only had teenage boys handing out anti abortion leaflets though doesn't it?

Bloody hell misteak.

Which illustrates precisely that they had sod all understanding or empathy for any of the issues surrounding this topic.

"I have always thought the right to protest covered the right to peaceful protest and as I said earlier on in my posts, I do think there is something distinctly unpeaceful about shoving pictures of dead feutuses at people. "

It's largely tied in with freedom of expression and it covers the right to 'shock,disgust and offend.'

I suppose MayorQ. But this seems calculated to hurt. Just seems a little callous.

since when did we all have any right to shock, disgust and offend everyone in the name of freedom of expression? We don't. We have laws against hate speech, against offensive language, about offensive imagery. Can I stand on a public street and show blow-ups of hardcore porn to people? Or racist cartoons?
Of course I don't. youth defence intentionally set out to upset and outrage, that is their main tactic. And they get away with it because they happen to be white catholic middle class kids who are on the same side as most of those making the laws.

I can't see how you can condone the actions of youth defence, spuc et al, no matter what your own thoughts on the matter. They are sickening, and I'd be ashamed of any child of mine associating with them.

I have been googling this and is seems free speech is limited when it causes harm to others. I honestly do think the actions of these groups causes harm.

Hard core porn and racism are illegal. Pictures of foetuses are not . The idea that the democratically elected Irish legislature is in the puppet of right wing catholicism is inaccurate. Those days are gone.

The idea that Irelands laws and social mores are not shaped by Catholic doctrine is ridiculous.

It takes more than a few years to shake off an influence of centuries. The abortion law wasn't implemented yesterday.

But abortion would NOT be illegal if Ireland was NOT an RC country. So the suggestion that the laws of Ireland are not tied to the church do not seem to hold water? I do not live in Ireland so that's just my view but abortion is ONLY illegal in countries that are RC or another religion that prohibits abortion.

it would have been better if they were handing out leaflets on contraception and free condoms as well

oh wait - i bet this is some fucked up religeon thing - so no contraception then

Ireland has liberal laws on homosexuality. Afaik that's not in line with RC teaching.

Certainly ,historically ,Irish law was heavily influenced by the dominant religion. However it is incorrect to suggest that the RC church continues to solely shape and form Irish morality. It's a lazy stereotype .

Certainly it is an influence but less than family, friends, media etc . It's support of an issue can also be off putting for many people.

I grew up in Holy Catholic Ireland of the dark 80's and read Cosmo magazine . Both expressed strong opposing viewpoints on issues of sexual
Morality. Should one of them have been banned or denied a voice ? That's censorship.

People are free to make up their own minds and the ballot box is private. People are free to express their opinion even it causes offence and revulsion. It does not physically harm you. This freedom of expression is a right and should never be endangered no matter how hard the message is to stomach.