aibu to want this teacher to apologise to my son.

[wfrances]

ds age 12 takes a packed lunch to school,during 2nd lesson he notices drink has leaked in his bag {all of it}his lunch is ruined,and now has no drink.
he tells his teacher who says "i dont care, its not my problem, sit down."
im fuming, he didnt eat all day,no drink and what a wicked way to respond to a child.
phoned head of year straight away ,who totally agreed with my reaction.
but i think she should apologise to him-what do you think?

I am a teacher Omigawd

just one with manners

I would expect the school to provide him with a lunch - and I'd expect a 12 year old to go to the office and explain that he has no lunch. My 12 year old would, and has, done that when lunch money has been accidentally left at home.
For what it is worth, at work when the school kitchen had no hot meals (they cater for the number of children who have booked a lunch plus those booked before 10am) - we went to the local bakery and bought the child some lunch.

"from that that that they still have permission to sort out their soaking books.."

See, it's got me struttering now!

When i was at school we got a blackboard cleaner thown at us for talking. I actually took a blow to the head and fell off my chair. I was also locked in a cupboard for the whole lesson for being cheeky. Then another teacher dragged me and my desk to the corridor where i stayed for a months worth of lessons by myself.

I didnt dare tell my mam, i would have got wrong again for being cheeky.

I dont think the teacher was harsh.

@said - what years?

Let be honest, when teaching I could imagine having said something similar to the comment the teacher made. In certain circumstances.
If I knew a child was on the spectrum, I would have handled it differently. Probably on the lines of "Okay Tommy, can you wait there, we will deal with that when the class is quiet."
But did the teacher know this? Is the boy on the spectrum? (I haven't read that, just some speech issue, but with all the drip feed I could have missed it.)

This is exactly the sort of parenting that undermines teachers and makes the job bloody impossible.

No-I probably wouldn't have said that to one of my class (though they are much younger children) and I probably would have just sent them out with the lunchbox to the toilets to sort it out. However, if my son had come home telling me that was what happened-I would have wondered what on earth he was doing to disrupt the class. It doesn't sound like he put his hand up and said 'Please, Miss-my lunchbox has leaked-can I go and sort it out?'

We have got to teach lessons, otherwise parents would be in demanding that we apologise to their child for not having done so...

I think its a little harsh to judge this teacher on one badly phrased response. Yes its not an ideal way to deal with the situation but i dont think any of us can say that we have never worded something badly or reacted unthinkingly? As long as this not representitve of DSs school experience i wouldnt get too upset.

I don't know the classroom situation but I'm assuming that he didn't have permission to sort it out. In many schools particularly secondary kids don't have permission to go to the toilet during classtime so I would assume they wouldn't have permission to be faffing around with cleaning books. Everything was soaked anyway so there was no point.

I know it's said by so many teachers but it's only said because it's true - parents truly don't understand what it's like to teach. I've taught in classes where I've literally not been able to allow the children to move from their seats at any point, otherwise chaos breaks out. I much prefer to be in a class where I can trust the children, let them go to the toilet when they want, let them go and get a drink but unfortunately in some classes getting them to this level takes months and sometimes never happens. Letting one child mess around with his bag could result in others wandering around the classroom and complaining that "but X is allowed..." Sometimes a zero tolerance policy is the only way to go. It really isn't fair on the well behaved ones but it would be worse if those well behaved ones go to learn nothing because the badly behaved ones were taking the piss.

"dont think any of us can say that we have never worded something badly or reacted unthinkingly?"

That's true.

How about the teacher then gets back to the student on it, and says words to the effect - "sorry about the other day"?

Would that be too much of a come down.

I'll give you an example - last year I had a fantastically well behaved year 6 class except for one boy who just would not listen to a word I said. It got to the point where I had to have a procedure for entering the class and sitting down that everyone had to follow, otherwise this boy would wander around for a good ten minutes of each lesson. It annoyed the other children and bugged the life out of me but rather than spending that precious ten minutes of every class cajoling, threatening and then finally sending the boy out and having him miss the class, only way to go was to give him no way to disobey. It benefited him hugely as his behaviour really improved over time but probably seemed ridiculously harsh to the other children who had to be told no when they wanted to get their own whiteboard or share rubbers. I had to do it though.

I also note that the OP'S son doesn't appear to be a disruptive class member - and genuinely went home a bit distressed - and he'd missed his diinner.

I would think most 12 year old would be absolutely mortified at the prospect of their mother marching into school to demand a teacher apologise for telling them off!

It does sound like the teacher was a bit 'brusque', but that's how some teachers are, and calling her 'wicked' is an over-reaction.

i think YABU with your response to this situation - how does getting an apology from this teacher help your son? in the circumstances i don't think she was rude, she was trying to get her job done...

i you wanted to make an appointment to speak to his HOY/guidance teacher/SenCo to discuss the fact that this incident would suggest the teachers aren't understanding his SN - YANBU. you could ask for them to create new strategies to help him cope. based on your description further on in the thread i think expecting individual teachers to "manage" him is not necessarily the best plan, they could be seeing 500 pupils over the course of a week so can't necessarily remember the exact requirements of each of them.

i'm astonished that any child who would not in the future be expected to be able to live independently isn't statemented - have i understood that right?

Maybe animation but if this was my kid i would probably explain to them that this is how people can be sometimes, it is human nature to be a bit off at times and they should not take it to heart.

If the teacher chose to apologise then yes that would be ideal but i would not demand an apology as i think it is not really representitive of life. When kids enter the work place people will not always apologise for snapping.

Obviously i dont know OPs ds or how that would apply but in general i would not think demanding an apology is really necessary.

To the op , I understand exactly how you are feeling, but do think pushing for an apology is a bit unreasonable. Having a son who sounds very similar to yours, I know that my son would have probably reacted in the same way. The hoy has apologized, so I would drop the issue, you will probably have several more incidents as your son moves through high school & you need to choose your battles carefully.

Have you checked with the hoy that your son's teachers know that he has special needs? I only ask because my ds is on the spectrum (likely aspergers) but because he is very clever & can just about cope most of his teachers were not even aware that he has any special needs. For example one of the strategies given to him by the school when he felt he could not cope was to quietly tear a piece of scrap paper into tiny pieces. It worked fine until his German teacher noticed what he was doing. He shouted at him in class, made a real example of him in front of everyone & gave him detention! No-one had bothered to tell the teacher about my sons problems.

I just keep telling my son, that if he has any problems he needs to see his hoy or the suppot team at the next break.

OP what was your sons reaction to the teachers comments?

As far as i have seen (forgive me if i am wrong) you have only said that you were fuming and heartbroken.

Was DS upset when he told you? Obviously he had no lunch and was snapped at but this for me would have been a fairly normal day at school. How did it effect him?

It is a shame if he is normally well behaved and he got treated a bit harshly this time but that's the reality of school. Again like I said if he has SN and can't cope that's another issue.

Pfb?

Honestly? I probably do would speak like that to my DDs when if I was stressed and busy!

We were talked to like this as kids in the late 80s/early 90s- not by all teachers though and it doesn't mean it's right.

There were some teachers who didn't appear to even like children, or less still their job. Some seemed barely functioning as human beings let alone teachers. They were perpetually grumpy and it made me feel very demotivated in their lessons in secondary school. I just wanted to learn and be enthusiastic, and to be trusted and for there to be some mutual respect. To be fair it was a very rough time for education - national curriculum and GCSEs were introduced while I was at secondary school. But some teachers remained great teachers throughout, and it was in their classes I performed best. Funnily enough the enthusiastic, fun, basically 'nice' teachers often maintained the best discipline as well.

I certainly wouldn't have known who to go to at 12, I was 12 when I started secondary school. It was massive - 1500 pupils and very anonymous. Why, why do we educate kids this way? Nuture them as individuals in primary school then send them into a big melting pot at barely 11 for some kids where no-one gives a shit and they have to fend for themselves? And then wonder why some kids play up? I'd give the whole system post 11 a D- personally, failing and could do much better.

In the above case, surely it wouldn't be hard to say "Oh dear, well, take your books out so they don't get any wetter than they are, go and get some paper towels and we'll sort the rest out at the end of the lesson". Then at the end tell him where to go to about lunch etc.

I don't know if I'd ask for or expect an apology, but I would write to/e-mail the relevant person - not sure who this would be in a secondary school, head of year or pastoral care person? - to highlight what happened and ask them what the procedure should have been.

Insomnia - great post!

Thanks, I didn't mean it to turn into a stream of consciousness rant. It's funny how some topics on Mumsnet seem to have brought things to the surface in me that I didn't even know were there. At times it's therapy. As you were, sorry.

OP I wouldn't push for an apology, as another poster said honey over vinegar may give your ds a better outcome for the future. He sounds very similar to my ds. Does he not have an official dx?

I would expect a teacher to maybe react like that if the dc had previous disruptive behaviour but it doesn't sound like he is disruptive child For a dc with sn the world can be a very confusing place and school can be a very stressful environment.

Teachers can be very rude, expect respect and manners were none is returned, especially judging by the teachers who have posted on this topic. It isn't surprising that so many dc with sn end up school refusing or in home ed.

All the posters who commented on the dc not having a statement, it is really difficult to get a statement even with a dx and very complex needs.