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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

aibu to want this teacher to apologise to my son.

507 replies

wfrances · 04/07/2011 21:37

ds age 12 takes a packed lunch to school,during 2nd lesson he notices drink has leaked in his bag {all of it}his lunch is ruined,and now has no drink.
he tells his teacher who says "i dont care, its not my problem, sit down."
im fuming, he didnt eat all day,no drink and what a wicked way to respond to a child.
phoned head of year straight away ,who totally agreed with my reaction.
but i think she should apologise to him-what do you think?

OP posts:
quirrelquarrel · 05/07/2011 07:45

He's 12. It's not her problem. Why did he even tell the teacher? I think she's on the right tracks. She's there to teach, not to make sure he's comfortable.

And yes, having lunch is comfortable. Going without is uncomfortable. But that's all it is- unless he's diabetic or something, it's not something to mention.

If he has SN and this clouded his judgement of how to deal with what had happened (and I understand how that feels, believe me), he should be equipped with instructions of some sort so he can cope in future. The first post is v. U. But this is the kind of attitude amongst kids these days, SN or not, and a lot of it is encouraged by teachers who do just moddycoddle the darlings- teachers like this sound good.

Animation · 05/07/2011 07:46

Indigo - I think my grip's OK thanks.

What is this "brusque" strategy meant to achieve if a student has a bag full of soaking books?

PrincessJenga · 05/07/2011 07:48

Noble, sounds to me like you're in exactly the right job Smile

OP, even after reading all the drip fed SEN information this morning i still think YABU. You're clearly trying to protect your son, which I admire 100%, but teaching him strategies to get help (see tutor, head of year, head of inclusion etc) if things get tricky at school would be more productive than getting cross about one teacher who didn't behave the way you think you would have in a situation you don't have all the details about. I also think you should have posted on SEN or Education as you clearly didn't actually want to know if you were being unreasonable or not!

Omigawd · 05/07/2011 07:53

Just confirms why so many teachers I know leave as they find their job is to be surrogate parents, social services, paramedics and punchbags - anything except actually teach.

Sorry, but if ones heart breaks when a teacher is snappy because a 12 yo has a lunch failure then that is a damn near perfect 10 on the PFB scale :)

Animation · 05/07/2011 07:56

"Just confirms why so many teachers I know leave as they find their job is to be surrogate parents, social services, paramedics and punchbags - anything except actually teach"

I have a lot of teacher friends who all pretty much love their job.

BehindLockNumberNine · 05/07/2011 07:59

I have just asked ds what he would do in the OP's ds's situation. Ds is 11.11 and in Y7 at a large state comprehensive school.

He said that with some of his teachers he would not say anything. He would take his books out of his bag to prevent further damage, wipe them with his sleeve and not say a word. He would then after the lesson go and get tissue from the toilet and sort his bag out.
With some other teachers he would put his hand up and tell them his drink had spilled and ask to get a tissue/paper towel to dry the books. He said most (of his less strict) teachers would allow this.

Re the lunch - ds's school have a finger smart pay system. It currently has no money on it as ds prefers packed lunches to eat outside on the school patio. He said he would explain the problem to one of the dinner ladies who would let him buy something provided he paid tomorrow.

He thinks that OP's ds should not have been standing up in class and should have either put his hand up or not said anything and just sorted himself out later.
He does think the teacher was a little unkind.

He also said he would UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES want me to demand an apology.

hth Smile

WriterofDreams · 05/07/2011 07:59

I probably would have said something similar to a year 6 (I'm a primary teacher). Saying something like that in a lesson is disruptive and totally unnecessary. Plenty of children will want to tell you about their torn cardigan, the hole in their shoe, and you know what it really isn't the teacher's problem, especially not during lesson time. If a child came to me at lunch time and said it I'd definitely help them but most 12 year olds should know not to interrupt with irrelevant information during a lesson. I understand your son has some SEN, so the teacher should be made aware of this for future occurrences. However, complaining is just ridiculous and unnecessary.

noblegiraffe · 05/07/2011 08:34

Thanks, Princess. I love my job, and the kids are generally great. However some parents make me wonder why I bother.

Animation, I would love you to ask your teacher friends (secondary) what they would think of a parent who demanded they apologise to a kid for expecting them to sort out their own spilt drink.

Omigawd · 05/07/2011 08:47

"Animation, I would love you to ask your teacher friends (secondary) what they would think of a parent who demanded they apologise to a kid for expecting them to sort out their own spilt drink."

Even better, would they write it down here :o

Animation · 05/07/2011 08:48

"apologise to a kid for expecting them to sort out their own spilt drink."

Giraffe -

Did this teacher expect the student to sort out his spilt drink problem, when he said - "i dont care, its not my problem, sit down."??

Is that that what that means?

Was it permission to sort out the mess - or sit down and pay attention?

noblegiraffe · 05/07/2011 08:58

Was it dead, bleeding or on fire?

Another poster has said what their child would do if they thought a teacher wouldn't let them attend to it immediately.

What, by the way, do you think a child will learn if every time they have an issue an adult leaps to the rescue and sorts it for them? What do you think they will learn from a mother who says 'mummy will fix it, darling' to everything, including 'my teacher was a bit terse'?

Animation · 05/07/2011 09:01

You see, even I don''t know what that command means - and I don't have special needs??

The teacher just sounds angry to me.

WriterofDreams · 05/07/2011 09:11

The command means "don't tell me irrelevant things, sit down." It's pretty straightforward. You would be shocked at the amount of pointless things kids want to tell you all through lessons. If you don't send a very clear message that talking to the teacher should only be done to participate in the lesson or to report something serious then your lesson will go something like this:

Teacher: So today we're looking at... yes Johnny?
Johnny: Miss, Sharon took my pencil
Teacher: Sharon...
Sharon: I didn't miss
Peter: Miss, my drink spilled
Teacher: Can we sort it out later?
Peter: But miss my bag is wet...

And so on and so on and so on.
20 minutes later the lesson still hasn't started. Engaging with pointless talk is the number one mistake new teachers make. Experienced teachers cut it off right away, and sometimes that requires quite a harsh response as you'd be surprised how tenacious children can be. Parents forget that you have one child in the class but the teacher has 20-30 children. You have to very carefully decide what is relevant and what is not, otherwise nothing at all gets done.

Animation · 05/07/2011 09:11

"i dont care, its not my problem, sit down."??

So this is the "brusque" stategy approach then.

I assume this approach is taught in teacher training?

WriterofDreams · 05/07/2011 09:15

The language is a bit harsh, I agree, but as others have said, teachers are human and often under a lot of pressure. If everyone jumps on them every time they're vaguely brusque then they might as well just throw in the towel. I don't agree with children being humiliated or caned or anything anywhere near that but saying they can only be treated with kid gloves all the time and never exposed to any sort of negativity is ridiculous. They're likely to come up against a lot worse in the real world.

MistressFrankly · 05/07/2011 09:17

YABU you child will face a lot harsher treatment in the future. That is a fact. If you child has SN and these were not managed by the teacher appropriately, you have brought the issue up with HT and it is their place to deal with it.

I think you need to give the teacher a break.

WriterofDreams · 05/07/2011 09:17

FWIW a teacher would be advised to say "That is not relevant to the lesson, please sit down," which isn't a million miles away from what the teacher actually said.

WriterofDreams · 05/07/2011 09:19

I don't see how parents expect teachers to produce fantastic results when they're not allowed to do anything at all to control a class. The classroom is quite an unnatural situation - it's very odd to have young people sitting listening for long periods of time - and sometimes the situation becomes overwhelming even for an experienced teacher. A teacher can't stop and think about every little situation that arises and still fit the lesson into a short space of time. Give the poor teacher a break for god's sake.

mumeeee · 05/07/2011 09:21

Yes it does seem a bit harsh but YABU to expect an apology. The teacher was trying to teach. DD3 has learning difficulties and when she was younger she did sometimes forget to do her drink up tightly or forget her lunch. In these situations she would probably ask for help. But she knew not to just stand up in class.

Animation · 05/07/2011 09:22

A student on the spectrum would definately be confused by that command - as they take everything you say completely LITERALLY.

They would believe you didn't care, believe it wasn't your problem and believe they better sit down.

Consequently they would probably leave the soaking books - soaking in the bag. They will also have picked up on the anger, and believe that the teacher is angry with them.

Brilliant.

gramercy · 05/07/2011 09:24

YAB totally U.

Spilt drink, ruined lunch - c'est la vie.

Cross teacher - not surprised.

You saying it "broke your heart" - words fail me.

WriterofDreams · 05/07/2011 09:30

But animation the teacher didn't care, it wasn't his/her problem, and he/she wanted him to sit down. So nothing misunderstood. And the teacher was angry. It happens.

If the child genuinely can't cope with the normal secondary school situation then that's a different issue. He needs support beyond what a class teacher can give him.

saidthespiderwithahorridsmile · 05/07/2011 09:31

I think WriterOfDreams makes really good points about teachers needing to nip unnecessary chat in the bud

but an appropriate way of doing this would be

"Not now - see Mrs X at break, this is lesson time"

what this teacher actually said was bloody rude and ill-mannered. If one of my children spoke to me or anyone else like that I would be cross and would insist on an apology. There is no need for bad manners. Teachers are not exempt from the basic rules of courtesy.

stealthsquiggle · 05/07/2011 09:34

Well DS is only Y4 and his teachers already expect them to come up with solutions and (for example) remember their own stuff, look after it, etc, etc - of course the teachers will help if the DC ask - but only to the extent of 'how do you think you could fix that?' - they are expected, on the whole, to come up with their own solutions rather than just presenting someone with the problem. By the time they get to Y7 they would not be expected to need to ask.

OP my most sympthetic reaction to DS in similar circumstances would have been 'Oh dear. How do you think you could have handled it better?'

Giraffe my DM used to use 'if it isn't dead, bleeding or on fire, don't bother me with it' as well (when teaching at at home!) Grin

Animation · 05/07/2011 09:35

"But animation the teacher didn't care, it wasn't his/her problem, and he/she wanted him to sit down. So nothing misunderstood. And the teacher was angry. It happens."

How does a student (particularly one on the spectrum) deduce from that that that they still have permission to sort out their soaking books?

What is the student supposed to do?

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