?I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.?
(Quote from Robert McCloskey - author of Make Way for Ducklings) - Just about sums up how I feel about the way some of my contributions to this thread have been taken.
I will re-iterate once more that I do not self-identify as a feminist because of genuine reasons within my philosophical stance which I do not feel are compatible with calling myself a feminist. I do not frame my views on inequality through a gendered oriented lense, I do not believe that quotas are the way to achieving equality and I do not feel equality can be achieved if it is framed through a reference of righting past wrongs.
While these things form part of my own personal philosophy, it would be disengenious to both myself and to Feminism to claim to be a feminist because these are fundamental differences - therefore I don't. However, none of that means that I do not want equality, nor does it mean that I do not recognise that women still get a raw deal, no matter how many times radical feminists tell me it does.
I use the term equalist or egalitarian because at the moment, they seem to fit most comfortably with my personal philosophy although I don't agree with every aspect of it. I would prefer not to use labels at all, but recognise that they are a useful shorthand for identifying positions, and until something better comes along, for me, equalist or egalitarian is it.
That does not make me an MRA (I had never even heard the term until this thread), it does not make me a misogynist, it does not make me an 'anti-feminist'. MRA's may also call themselves equalists, just as some man haters call themselves feminists. It does not mean that everyone who uses the label shares the views of those on the extreme fringes. This is something which Feminists were keen to argue earlier in the thread when people were saying they didn't like feminism because of the radical elements, but seem unwilling to accept about those who call themselves equalists.
There are a lot of equality issues in which I share feminist concerns - of particular and personal interest to me is women's role in child-rearing and the workplace - it is just that I may have different ideas and approaches to how these could best be tackled. In the end, I think we are all striving for the same outcome.
I would love to be able to discuss it on the feminist boards as I believe that by using a combination of approaches, the end goal could be reached much quicker. However, I don't because as soon as it becomes apparent that I am not standing up and shouting proudly from the rooftops that I am a feminist, I would get insulted.
Claig proved that earlier up the thread when despite several attempts by me to explain my position she continued to harrangue my views, equating them with MRA's and ending with the wonderfully patronising:
"It doesn't sound like you are really interested in equality. The feminism board is probably not for you. I reckon the MRA's website is more your home."
I have also, in the past been called an anti-feminist by Dittany for expressing similar views.
What chance would I have of being able to engage in any kind of reasonable discussion on the feminist boards when self-declared feminists themselves are called Misogynists for not liking Sarah Palin?
However, it has become increasingly clear that some MN feminists do not want to hear these views or take on board the criticisms (Lenin has been a refreshing exception). It seems to me people would prefer to continue to throw around accusations of trolling or bullying or assume that the differences and criticisms are the result of some kind of successful mind control games by MRA?s rather than any behaviour on their own part or the ability of people to make up their own minds about things. Even when it is acknowledged that there may be issues with attitudes or behaviours of certain individuals (and no Dittany, I am not talking specifically about you), excuses are just trotted out about how it is because the feminist boards are trolled and the feminist posters on them have to constantly defend themselves ? no matter that the people they are attacking are not the trolls. It?s like being shot at by a sniper in a crowded market and spraying the whole market in machine gun fire in retaliation.
Surely it would be more productive to work out how things can move forward and those of us with common interests and opinions around gender equality can actually work together to facilitate change more quickly.
Those saying that the MRA?s are probably patting themselves on the back for the dischord that has been created are most likely right ? and the ironic thing is, in the case of this thread, the MRA?s didn?t even have to lift a finger to facilitate it. They just got to sit back and watch as intelligent women with strong opinions decided to tear each other to shreds rather than listening and finding common ground.