AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as [2]

[garlicnutter]

... not a feminist?

Since I killed the old one.

I know, sunshine, believe me, I know. If only it had been put like that then...

As an outsider and newbie who already has a cloud of (understandable I suppose) suspicion above her head and has been keeping out of things because this is now more a debate for established members and I clearly have had more bad interactions with certain members than others and wasn't going to say anything but thought oh why not...

After 1700 posts I don't see any culpability or desire to listen from the people who have pissed other members off. I said on the cat-poo thread the cat-poo person was being unreasonable, and same here, it is obvious who (not just dittany, the people defending the feminist forum without taking any responsibility or making excuses for how they act, to be clear) are being completely unreasonable. It was very hard for me not to point out that dittany was begging people to name names, then made a huge fuss when they did! Aargh! Just my opinion.

I don't think anybody expects education. I don't mind being advised of threads or reading material I might find interesting. I don't think that is patronising. (I haven't looked so this may already have been done but has anybody put together a good reading list - perhaps it could be posted at the top of the section like MN site notes are posted at the top of the Active Convo page)

The patronising is when you have a view, which you may or may not have thought about deeply, which is completely swept aside with the attitude that you know nothing and haven't grasped the issues. Maybe I haven't but maybe I have and I simply don't agree. There is sometimes no allowance for that.

Yes, Niecie, and then are called misogynist and told you aren't allowed that view on the fem board. That is what is wrong and upsets people.

MarySue there have been loads of feminist regulars on here who have said we are sorry if we come across as too intellectual/inaccessible/domineering. I am one of them. Several of us have pointed out ways we will try to improve things in the future. In among those posts though we have had to defend ourselves against incorrect accusations of what we stand for (man-hating etc etc).

Yes there have, sunshine. Altho I don't remember any of those accusations, were they at the beginning? (Which seems like a lifetime ago)

It is bizarre to insist on being named, know exactly what people are saying about oneself, and completely ignore it. But hey ho. There you go.

I'm not usually into bags but I love PB.

I'm a little teary today - my youngest has gone for his induction day at secondary school - I had to get him an oyster card - he's all grown up now.

I don't know anything about bags, or shoes, apart from flip flops. I am a bit of a let down on that front. I do a good scarf if that's any good?

Yes sunshine, I don't mean the reasonable posters like you or Leningrad (and others) who are trying to be fair. I am talking about those that are playing the victim instead of doing any listening, and those that are being taken in by that.

Anyway, I am departing this thread for good now. Names have been named, bullying has been called. I have apologised for what I see as my own failures.

It may be easy for me to say this because I have not been a target, but having made my opinions clear on here I think it is time for me to draw a line under this thread, hope lessons have been learned on all 'sides' and hope for a kinder, more-respectful era of posting.

Sadly, those that are listening aren't the ones who needed to...twas ever thus

Yes I love a nice scarf -

• and I adore hats - and boots. >

Ahhh, Carmina I had that last week (without the oyster card).

I didn't expect to get well up when I took DS into his new school hall but I did. God knows what I will be like on the first day of term. It seems to be affecting me badly because it was my old school and I never dreamt my own children would go there.

I have to take DS2 to his new juniors too. It is DS1's school at the moment so nothing I haven't been dealing with for the last 4 yrs but I shall be sad to see the back of infants.

"It is misogynistic to start talking about how ages of consent don't matter on a thread about a discussion of a 15 year old girl who was probably raped."

I totally agree. If a 15 year old has sex with someone over 16, it is, by law, rape regardless of whether she gave "consent" or not. There are reasons why the age of concent exist. It is not merely the age at which a person can have sex, it the age at which the average person is considered to be emotionally responsible enough to make that desicion for themeselves.

Add to that, people may say, "he was 167, she was 15, so it's not the same." But, the line has to be drawn somewhere. And the line is there. What if he is 17 and she is 12? Or he is 35 and she is 15? The law says 16. Unless there is reaosnable evidence that the male was decieved about age, it is rape and all young men who do not intend it should be extremely careful.

Dittany, where did that come from, though? I can't find a reference to it about, or is this a previous thread you speak of?

Niecie; I keep looking at the clock wishing it was 3.00pm - ( I'm picking him up and can't wait to hear about his day )

& That's great that your DS is going to the school you went to - I'd really like that.

I deleted my post when I realised what dittany was doing ie changing the subject. I always fall for that.