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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that there is a place for CAPITAL PUNISHMENT in a civilised society?

136 replies

HoHumm · 01/07/2011 22:56

Whenever any of us plebs (politicians would never debate it as they would be too scared to) call for a return of the death penalty, there are cries of 'not acceptable in a civilised country', 'that would make us as bad as the murderer', 'rehabilitating them makes us a more caring society' ad nauseum!

Well I think that is bollocks. Humanely (which is more they afforded their victims) putting a so called human down to rid society of a danger to all, cannot be compared to a sick twisted individual torturing someone for kicks who has done nothing wrong other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time in many cases. That is not revenge, it's just pure logic. Do we really believe we will go to hell if we support the death penalty? Do you consider yourself a better (spiritually) person if you support keeping these people alive?

The money spent on keeping these people alive in comfortable circumstances (approx £40k per year) could be much better spent helping the victim's families. Just what is the point in keeping these people alive. In many countries in the world life is cheap and thousands of people are killed every day in wars, by dictators and even in simple car accidents. Why would a murderers life be of value to any one, especially as it costs a lot of money to keep the public safe from them?

Murderers cannot be rehabilitated IMO. Once you have crossed that line and are capable of killing someone in cold blood, you will be capable of doing it again. Add to that the fact that many do not admit it and feel remorse but try everything to wheedle out of it. That applies to all murderers whatever their age. Running someone down in your car by accident is obviously different and should be dealt with differently.

The cases of Levi Bellfield and that Italian scum in the news recently have totally summed up all that is wrong in our 'punishment' system today. Many of these 'people' enjoy being in jail as they have a sense of routine and have everything done for them, they can even get a job and use the money to buy pleasurable items.

Miscarriages of justice would be pretty rare these days, we have moved on from the 1960's in terms of science and the verdict would be 'beyond reasonable doubt'. I could live with the occasional mistake tbh, it the murder rate in general was reduced. I can't understand the argument that it would not be a deterrant either? It would surely deter me if I was that way inclined.

It is said that there can be no 'emotion' in law and I have never understood this as if we did not have emotions, no one would give a toss if their loved ones were murdered. Well they would'nt love them anyway!

OP posts:
TheBigJessie · 04/07/2011 13:30

No to death penalty for all reasons given before, and some more of my own.

The conviction rate for murder increases* with the abolition of capital punishment. It is thought that juries are more willing to convict, if their guilty verdict will mean life imprisonment, rather than execution. Which certainly makes sense to me.

So, re-introducing the death penalty could mean more murderers walking the streets, contrary to what certain sections of the media would have you believe.

*Citation

WhipMeIndiana · 04/07/2011 13:36

'Miscarriages of justice would be pretty rare these days, we have moved on from the 1960's in terms of science and the verdict would be 'beyond reasonable doubt'. I could live with the occasional mistake tbh, it the murder rate in general was reduced. I can't understand the argument that it would not be a deterrant either? It would surely deter me if I was that way inclined.'

OP, what if the 'occasional mistake' was you, or someone in your family!

WhipMeIndiana · 04/07/2011 13:39

maybe for serial killers, I could be argued around to the death penalty,
very specifically though, where number of victims over 3, etc

but probably the psychologists want these ones kept alive, to examine!

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 04/07/2011 13:42

Even with serial killers I think it's quite problematic. I know what you mean, but wasn't there one of them (Jeffrey Dahmer ...?) who killed his victims because he couldn't bear for them to leave? I mean, how appallingly lonely would your life and your mindset have to be to make you do that? I can't help but have a bit of compassion, even though obviously serial killing is abhorrent.

GeekCool · 04/07/2011 13:50

Well I think that is bollocks. Humanely (which is more they afforded their victims) putting a so called human down to rid society of a danger to all, cannot be compared to a sick twisted individual torturing someone for kicks who has done nothing wrong other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time in many cases. That is not revenge, it's just pure logic. Do we really believe we will go to hell if we support the death penalty? Do you consider yourself a better (spiritually) person if you support keeping these people alive?

You don't seem able to put this down without emotion, using 'so called human'.

Also I don't believe in heaven or hell so no I don't think it makes me a better person spiritually to be against capital punishment, I think it just makes me a better person.
Finally the cost of death row, the execution, the numerous appeals is massive. The occasional mistake is not acceptable in my book. Killing someone by accident then retrsopectively clearing their name is horrific.

SinisterBuggyMonth · 04/07/2011 13:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

saidthespiderwithahorridsmile · 04/07/2011 14:07

Well your OP is just standard pig ignorant crap - nothing new there

but for this:

"So all murderers are mentally ill who should be shown mercy and leniency? Do not get that argument. Even more reason for them to be put to death to rid society of them."

you deserve to be banned IMO. If you feel the need to advocate killing the mntally ill, do it somewhere else. Not here.

cookcleanerchaufferetc · 04/07/2011 14:15

I think there is a place for capital punishment .... think of Fred West, Myra Hindley, Levi Bellfield, Ian Huntely .....

Tyr · 04/07/2011 14:15

The mentally ill and children apparently (Jamie Bulger's killers)

I don't agree that anyone should be banned, though; better to keep them and treat them with the contempt they deserve.

suzikettles · 04/07/2011 14:18

How about thinking of Lucia de Berk because everyone thought she was the sort of no-brainer monster that should have been executed rather than given a life sentence...

...until it turned out she was innocent.

MrsBethel · 04/07/2011 16:02

The "no-one has the right to take another's life" arguments are just too blinkered to the realities of crime.

If there was no chance of getting it wrong, and if it wasn't hideously expensive in legal fees, I'd be in favour of capital punishment.

Unfortunately, mistakes do happen, and it costs an obscene amount to get someone executed. In the face of such realities, the only reason to press ahead with capital punishment would be spite. Which is almost as bad an argument as the hand-wringing one above.

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