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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that there is a place for CAPITAL PUNISHMENT in a civilised society?

136 replies

HoHumm · 01/07/2011 22:56

Whenever any of us plebs (politicians would never debate it as they would be too scared to) call for a return of the death penalty, there are cries of 'not acceptable in a civilised country', 'that would make us as bad as the murderer', 'rehabilitating them makes us a more caring society' ad nauseum!

Well I think that is bollocks. Humanely (which is more they afforded their victims) putting a so called human down to rid society of a danger to all, cannot be compared to a sick twisted individual torturing someone for kicks who has done nothing wrong other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time in many cases. That is not revenge, it's just pure logic. Do we really believe we will go to hell if we support the death penalty? Do you consider yourself a better (spiritually) person if you support keeping these people alive?

The money spent on keeping these people alive in comfortable circumstances (approx £40k per year) could be much better spent helping the victim's families. Just what is the point in keeping these people alive. In many countries in the world life is cheap and thousands of people are killed every day in wars, by dictators and even in simple car accidents. Why would a murderers life be of value to any one, especially as it costs a lot of money to keep the public safe from them?

Murderers cannot be rehabilitated IMO. Once you have crossed that line and are capable of killing someone in cold blood, you will be capable of doing it again. Add to that the fact that many do not admit it and feel remorse but try everything to wheedle out of it. That applies to all murderers whatever their age. Running someone down in your car by accident is obviously different and should be dealt with differently.

The cases of Levi Bellfield and that Italian scum in the news recently have totally summed up all that is wrong in our 'punishment' system today. Many of these 'people' enjoy being in jail as they have a sense of routine and have everything done for them, they can even get a job and use the money to buy pleasurable items.

Miscarriages of justice would be pretty rare these days, we have moved on from the 1960's in terms of science and the verdict would be 'beyond reasonable doubt'. I could live with the occasional mistake tbh, it the murder rate in general was reduced. I can't understand the argument that it would not be a deterrant either? It would surely deter me if I was that way inclined.

It is said that there can be no 'emotion' in law and I have never understood this as if we did not have emotions, no one would give a toss if their loved ones were murdered. Well they would'nt love them anyway!

OP posts:
MarySueFTW · 01/07/2011 23:19

I agree some people deserve it - but ubless they are on video and there is no doubt at all, you simply can't trust the guilty verdict. Colin Stagg would be dead. So would the Birmingham Six. As would many other innocent people who seem a bit guilty and the police are under pressure to make an arrest, leaving the real killers free forever.

BelleDameSansMerci · 01/07/2011 23:19

Omigawd - could they limelight a bit and shoot men walking around without tops on and anyone wearing those stupid trousers with a low hanging crotch, please?

ensure · 01/07/2011 23:20

Actually I'm not against the death penalty in theory, but it wouldn't work in practice IMO.

If you live in an unfair and unequal society - which everyone in the world does(!), it isn't right that you'd be more or less likely to get the death penalty not because of your crime but because of your class, your gender, how much money you have, your race, what you look like etc.

Icoulddoitbetter · 01/07/2011 23:20

I know there are people who share your viewpoint OP, but thankfully our society has come far enough that the death penalty will never be brought back. Killing for killing belongs in the midlde ages.

And as for the cost of keeping people in prison, if we use the USA as an example, do you know how many years people are kept on death row before the death penalty is actually seen through?

The fact that you said you could live with the odd mistake shows the complete lack of reason in your argument.

BecauseImWorthIt · 01/07/2011 23:20

Ah. I see HoHumm is new to Mumsnet. This is his/her first post, and he/she has followed it up with an equally pleasant one about immigration.

Welcome to Mumsnet, HoHumm and now, please, fuck off.

MoChan · 01/07/2011 23:20

Though, I slightly agree with Omigawd about the dog-crap people.

thursday · 01/07/2011 23:24

YABU, aside from all the 'it's barbaric' 'what about miscarriages of justice' etc i'm quite sure it's actually not cheaper to execute. there's an incredibly lengthy legal process which is very expensive, while people spend half a lifetime on death row anyway.

SposeIOughtToNameChange · 01/07/2011 23:25

...and my second...Biscuit

How's the debating class homework coming along?

wearenotinkansas · 01/07/2011 23:25

In terms of the deterrent argument - from Amnesty again

"In 2004
in the USA, the average murder rate for
states that used the death penalty was
5.71 per 100,000 of the population as
against 4.02 per 100,000 in states that
did not use it. In 2003 in Canada, 27
years after the country abolished the
death penalty the murder rate had fallen
by 44 per cent since 1975, when capital
punishment was still enforced."

so no evidence that it is a deterrent anyway

toutlemonde · 01/07/2011 23:26

I failed to say YABU

CQrrrneee · 01/07/2011 23:28

why have you put CAPITAL PUNISHMENT in capitals? Is it because you are ATTENTION SEEKING?

CQrrrneee · 01/07/2011 23:28

YABU btw

Asinine · 01/07/2011 23:32

Punishment for misuse of capitals?

op you are cliche ridden, please put the daily mail down, and try original thought

CQrrrneee · 01/07/2011 23:33

CLICHE RIDDEN

ensure · 01/07/2011 23:33

I don't really know what I mean by 'in theory' really. I suppose I think if the people making the decisions were perfectly moral and knowledgeable, and 100 percent infallible, then in cases where the criminal had done something so heinous that they'd never be let out anyway, then killing them would be more erm, efficient.

TinyPawz · 01/07/2011 23:34

HoHumm I agree. Capital punishment is the way forward. Murderers, paedophiles and the like should get a swift bullet to back of head.

The money that would have spent trying to rehabilitate these people could then be spent on other things.

ensure · 01/07/2011 23:35

So, not really in theory, more in la-la-land.

Oh well, time for bed for me!

CQrrrneee · 01/07/2011 23:36

has there been a net mums invasion?

Suncottage · 01/07/2011 23:36

So OP you condone the death penalty for premeditated murder.

Therefore the state or country you live in actively carries out premeditated murder on the one found guilty by a court of law.

Nice paradox.

Who actually wins?

No one.

Suncottage · 01/07/2011 23:38

This thread is weird. Good night.

D0G · 01/07/2011 23:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

griphook · 01/07/2011 23:38

the op does have a point though about the money spent on them which would be better spporting the victims and helping them come to terms with what has happened. Addtionally there is defintly no deterent to commit a crime, particulary with the current over crowding in prison.

The country is becomming more violent particulary sexually violence towards women,that I think we are becomming less shocked by it and a bit numb, there is so much violence on tv and a culture of disrespect.

Over time I really have come to believe that some people are just pure evil and unable to see their victims as other people with feelings, and with the introduction of the internet it has given them a port hole to test things out and to meet other evil people

I do believe that if you commit a crime particulary a violent crime then you should lose ypur right to anything other than basis human rights.

starcuntmole · 01/07/2011 23:49

I live in wait for someone who is 'Pro killing someone in the name of 'Justice' to be the one who actually pulls the 'trigger'. I wonder if the fairest thing is to ask the mother?
(Disclaiment: apparently some of people who murder don't have one)

(added disclaimer, not that every one accused of murder has a negative/disrupted/motherless childhood)

It's almost like it's really tricky to tell whether someone is a really evil or being or not,

nakedandangry · 02/07/2011 00:05

Who really thinks the money 'saved' from not imprisoning murderers would find its way to the victims of heinous crime.

We know that capital punishment fails as a deterrent for criminals of heinous crimes.

Therefore the OP argument fails.

Imv murderers/ paedophiles should be kept away from society and sentences should be life long. I do believe in harsher sentencing, including rape attacks, in order to protect society.

FreudianSlipper · 02/07/2011 00:19

Murderers cannot be rehabilitated

would you class a young boy of say 16, who has been in and out of care for all his life gets caught up in a gang and is ordered to shoot someone the same way as you would judge Levi Bellfield. Or a women who for years has been abused by her father and murders him as she feels this is her only way to escape the abuse

capital punishment can never ever be part of our society again, it won't be and you really beleive prisoners love beign in prison, love having their freedom taken away, being told when and what they shall be eating, when then can socialise with others, being stuck in a tiny room for hours and hours - yeah sounds like great fun